Sentencing transcript of Dennis Rader August 17, 2005 Part 4: the murders of Vicki Wegerle and Dolores Davis
IN THE EIGHTEENTH JUDICIAL DISTRICT
DISTRICT COURT, SEDGWICK COUNTY, KANSAS
CRIMINAL DEPARTMENT
STATE OF KANSAS, )
)
4 Plaintiff, )
)
5 vs. ) Case No. 05 CR 498
) VOLUME IV
6 DENNIS L. RADER, ) WEDNESDAY, 8-17-05
) SECOND P.M. SESSION
7 Defendant. )
)
8 __________ ______)
9
10 TRANSCRIPT OF SENTENCING PROCEEDINGS
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12 PROCEEDINGS had and entered of record
13 in the above-entitled case on August 17, 2005,
14 before the Honorable Gregory L. Waller, Judge of
15 Division No. 5 of the Eighteenth Judicial District
16 of Kansas.
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18 APPEARANCES:
19 The State of Kansas appeared by and through
20 its attorneys, Ms. Nola Foulston, District Attorney, Ms.
21 Kim Parker, Chief Deputy District Attorney, Mr. Kevin
22 O'Connor, Deputy District Attorney and Mr. Aaron Smith,
23 Assistant District Attorney, 535 North Main, Wichita,
24 Kansas, 67203.
25 The Defendant, Dennis Rader, appeared in
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1 person and by his attorneys, Mr. Charles S. Osburn,
2 Chief Public Defender, and Ms. Sarah McKinnon, Assistant
3 Public Defender, 604 North Main, Suite D, Wichita,
4 Kansas, 67203.
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1 I N D E X
2 State's Witnesses Direct
3 KELLY OTIS 4
4 SAM HOUSTON 51
5 Certificate 86
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1 THE COURT: All right. We are back on
2 the record, State vs. Rader. The State may call
3 their next witness.
4 MS. PARKER: The State calls Detective
5 Kelly Otis.
6
7 KELLY OTIS,
8 called as a witness, having been first duly
9 sworn, testified as follows:
10 MS. PARKER: Your Honor, if you will
11 endure for a moment, we're having another
12 technical difficulty.
13 THE COURT: That's what happens when
14 you use these new-fangled pieces of equipment.
15 MS. PARKER: I thought it happened
16 when I started examining witnesses.
17 DIRECT EXAMINATION
18 BY MS. PARKER:
19 Q. Please state your name for our court record.
20 A. My name is Kelly Otis.
21 Q. And you are a detective with the Wichita Police
22 Department?
23 A. I am.
24 Q. And you were assigned to be involved with the
25 cold case investigation and review of the Vicki
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1 Wegerle manner -- matter?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And what was the date of her death?
4 A. September 16th, of 1986.
5 Q. Now, how long have you worked as a detective
6 with the Wichita Police Department?
7 A. I've been a detective since 1995.
8 Q. And prior to that time you were first employed
9 as an officer; is that correct?
10 A. Yes, ma'am.
11 Q. How long -- so when did you start that process?
12 A. 1985.
13 Q. And you are currently assigned to work homicide
14 cases?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And how long have you worked in that capacity?
17 A. 1997.
18 Q. And when were you assigned to being part of the
19 BTK task force that investigated and did the
20 cold case review that we have been speaking of
21 here today?
22 A. March of 2004.
23 Q. In becoming the detective who was responsible
24 for the Vicki Wegerle murder evaluation and
25 review, did you have an occasion to, of course,
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1 learn where she was murdered?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And where was that?
4 A. At her residence, at 2404 West 13th, here in
5 Wichita.
6 Q. Thank you. There is a photograph behind you
7 that shows the front of that address; is that
8 correct?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. And that is also a photograph that was taken at
11 the time that police were called to that home?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. Can you just briefly describe for us
14 how it is that police did come to be at that
15 home?
16 A. On the morning of September 16th, 1986, Bill
17 Wegerle, Vicki's husband, came home for lunch
18 about 10 till 11 that morning. When he arrived
19 home he found their two year old son in the
20 living room area of the house, unattended.
21 Mr. Wegerle found that to be unusual, because,
22 as he would say later, that was not one of his
23 wife's normal practices, or actually, any
24 practice to leave this son home alone.
25 Mr. Wegerle quickly walked through the
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1 house, didn't find her, noticed that her car was
2 gone when he pulled up at home and assumed at
3 that point that maybe she had to run a quick
4 errand or run to school to do something for
5 their daughter, who was attending school at the
6 time.
7 Mr. Wegerle had a lunch break and had to
8 return to work. He waited for quite some time,
9 up to approximately 45 minutes to an hour,
10 waiting for his wife to get home, becoming more
11 and more concerned about why she would leave the
12 young man home alone, the boy. Finally, he
13 walked into the bedroom, which he had walked by
14 before but had not gone into, and found his
15 wife's body in the bedroom on the floor. He
16 then called 911.
17 Q. And EMS responded; is that correct?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And actually, part of that team, one of those
20 team members, who you didn't know at that time,
21 but is your wife currently; is that correct?
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. Netta Sauer (ph sp) Otis?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So she is one of the team members that actually,
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1 as we've seen on television, was bringing out
2 Vicki Wegerle at that time?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. So you have also a personal association with
5 this case and concern about it, in terms of
6 having some knowledge even before you were
7 assigned to this task force?
8 A. That is correct.
9 Q. All right. Now, in the follow-up review of this
10 as a cold case, something that's already been
11 discussed, once Rader was arrested each
12 individual detective who was assigned a
13 particular case had the occasion and opportunity
14 to talk to them about the specifics of their
15 case, because they were familiar with that case?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And you did that with Rader?
18 A. I did.
19 Q. All right. And in that, were you interested in
20 finding out from him how it is that he selected
21 Vicki Wegerle?
22 A. I was.
23 Q. All right. Tell us what he told you.
24 A. Rader said that he picked Ms. Wegerle as a
25 victim, a future victim, simply one day when he
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1 was driving by their house and saw Vicki walk
2 outside and get into the car.
3 Q. And did you ask him further questions about
4 that?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. And what did you ask him?
7 A. I wanted to know if he had ever, during the time
8 after he picked her out, during his stalking
9 time or his trolling time or whatever he
10 referred to it as, if he had ever tried to make
11 contact with her in a public place, like in a
12 grocery store or in a church or in a public
13 place of business to get more information. And
14 he said no, he did not. The only stalking he
15 did of her was from basically from afar,
16 watching the house, paying attention to her
17 habits. He had no personal contact with her up
18 until the day that he killed her.
19 Q. In fact, one of the things that happens when
20 you're looking at a cold case, would it be a
21 fair statement that, you know, almost in -- in
22 attempt anything that you can think about or
23 remember and you get numerous reports in this
24 investigation, numerous tips, et cetera, and
25 those are followed and you did some
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1 investigation regarding maybe things that people
2 may have seen that would indicate who her killer
3 may have been?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. All right. But as it turns out, there is one
6 killer in this case?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. I want to show a photograph behind you, this is
9 a picture, it's a crop from a larger family
10 picture, but this shows Vicki Wegerle in life,
11 at 20 years -- 28 years of age?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, did you have some
14 question in your mind about how long he'd
15 actually watched Vicki Wegerle?
16 A. I did.
17 Q. And you asked him about that?
18 A. I did.
19 Q. What did he tell you?
20 A. He said that he had normally -- normally, in his
21 statement, he would spend about three weeks of
22 stalking, of surveilling his victim. He could
23 not remember exactly, in the Wegerle case, how
24 long he spent watching her and her family before
25 he killed her, but he thought it would probably
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1 be around the normal for him, which was around
2 three weeks.
3 Q. And I think Detective Relph shared with us that
4 part of it was that he would, like, maybe stalk
5 someone else at the same time?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And in fact, in the course of all the
8 interviews, it was learned by each of you who
9 interviewed him that he was constantly stalking
10 people?
11 A. Constantly.
12 Q. And one of them was Vicki Wegerle, who lived in
13 that home with her family. Could you tell us
14 who is in this picture?
15 A. The family photo shows Mr. Wegerle on the left,
16 daughter Stephanie at the top of the photo, son
17 Brandon at the bottom and then Vicki on the
18 right.
19 Q. All right. Now, as you've already indicated
20 now, Bill Wegerle was actually the same age and
21 I think their birthday was one -- is one day
22 apart?
23 A. They were the same age.
24 Q. All right. And he was actually at work at the
25 time she was murdered?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And as you've indicated, he came home for lunch.
3 Do you have any idea approximately what time he
4 left that day?
5 A. Around -- he came home around 10:45 to 10:50.
6 He left work about 10:45 and it was a short
7 drive.
8 Q. And it was a little while later before he found
9 her?
10 A. Yeah, it was about 45 to 50 minutes.
11 Q. And he had, I think, said in his original
12 interviews that he played with his son for a
13 little bit and kind of wondered about things?
14 A. Yes. He took care of Brandon for a little bit,
15 had a quick sandwich and tried to figure out
16 where Vicki might have gone.
17 Q. And depicted here is Stephanie Wegerle, she was
18 nine years of age at the time and where was she
19 at the time?
20 A. She was attending elementary school, was in
21 school at the time.
22 Q. And actually, the morning that her mother was
23 murdered, the last time she saw her mother alive
24 was when her mother dropped her off at school
25 that day?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And in this photograph we have a picture of two
3 year old Brandon Wegerle. And he was actually,
4 as indicated, there while Vicki was murdered?
5 A. He was present.
6 Q. And in fact, Rader mentions that to you. And
7 how does he describe where Brandon is?
8 A. In the interview he said that Brandon was in a
9 playpen. There was no playpen depicted in any
10 of the crime scene photos from '86. Later, when
11 we would search Rader's property and find his
12 mother lode, we would find a written description
13 of the Wegerle crime, in which he went into more
14 detail than what he went into with me -- myself
15 and Detective Gouge. And in that document he
16 described the son as being in the play area,
17 which made more sense, probably an area of the
18 living room with some toys on the floor or
19 something.
20 Q. But it's no doubt in the course of your
21 interview and the following investigation, that
22 Rader was very well aware of the presence of the
23 two year old while he murdered Vicki Wegerle?
24 A. That's correct.
25 Q. Now, going back a little bit to your discussion
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1 with him about how he -- he stalked or trolled
2 Vicki Wegerle. There's a screen behind you.
3 What does he tell you about that?
4 A. He mentioned that during his stalking of her
5 there were times when he would go by the house
6 and would actually hear a piano being played
7 inside the residence. Vicki apparently was a
8 quite good piano player. There was a piano in
9 the house and she would often play the piano.
10 Mr. Rader said that he heard that piano several
11 times and therefore nicknamed her PJ Piano.
12 Q. And because he kind of thought that was a good
13 code name for her, is that what he said?
14 A. Because he thought that was a good code name,
15 yeah.
16 Q. And there is a photograph of her piano as it
17 appeared in her home at that time?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now, did you ask him about how he managed to get
20 into the home of Vicki Wegerle?
21 A. He told us that he used the telephone repairman
22 ruse. He had a hard hat, a yellow hard hat, he
23 was able to stick a Southwestern Bell logo on
24 the front of the hard hat to make it look
25 official. He had a fake identification, which
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1 he would talk about in his writings, that he
2 made from a business card and was able to get
3 into the home as a telephone repairman.
4 Q. And he refers to it as some type of a bogie hat
5 or bogie hat?
6 A. Yeah. I don't know what that means, I have no
7 idea.
8 Q. But he was telling you how it -- it opened a lot
9 of doors for him; is that right?
10 A. He said that his telephone repair ruse opened a
11 lot of doors for him.
12 Q. And this would be the front door that it opened
13 for him on that day?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. All right. And this is the front door that
16 opens into the living room area and we can see a
17 toddler -- a toy there, perhaps being used some
18 time by Brandon Wegerle. Go ahead.
19 A. (Witness nodding head up and down.)
20 Q. Now, when he was telling you about this, he also
21 let you know that he still had this emblem?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Was keeping it?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And he referred to it as -- where he kept it as
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1 what?
2 A. His lair. The BTK lair, as he called it.
3 Q. Now -- so when you had the opportunity to start
4 searching through his stuff, are these the items
5 that you'd found that he had kept?
6 A. Yes. And the one on the left, the logo,
7 appeared to be a sticker, a transparent, clear
8 sticker with a logo on it. The paper behind it,
9 it looked as if the sticker had been peeled off
10 at least once, probably more, and then when he
11 was done with it he would put it back on the
12 backing so that he could keep the sticker there.
13 Q. And the other -- on the other side is a cutout
14 of a --
15 A. It appeared to be the cutout of a telephone book
16 cover, maybe.
17 Q. Okay. Go ahead, please. And then also, is this
18 just a front cover of that?
19 A. It was. It was apparently used as part of his
20 telephone repair ruse, he would have that with
21 him, a repair manual, to make him look
22 legitimate.
23 Q. So these are materials that he didn't throw
24 away, he kept for his memorabilia?
25 A. He did keep them, yes.
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1 Q. Okay. So on this day he indicated to you that
2 he actually heard the piano on the day that he
3 was going -- the morning he was going to kill
4 her?
5 A. He said he heard the piano as he approached her
6 house.
7 Q. Like with the others, of course, prior to this
8 time we don't -- we don't know what conversation
9 may have taken place with these victims and
10 their killers?
11 A. No, I don't think we do.
12 Q. And their killer, excuse me. But because of
13 Rader's interview, he -- he attempted to
14 describe, at least in his words, how those
15 conversations went?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And he discussed with you a conversation that he
18 had with Vicki Wegerle?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Can you tell us about that?
21 A. He generalized, saying he made small talk with
22 her. He was able to talk his way in with his
23 outfit and had a briefcase with him that he had
24 a -- what he called a headset in his writing,
25 making me believe that it was probably one of
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1 those old-fashioned headsets that phone repair
2 guys would use, where they would clip on with
3 alligator clips to the wires. He told her that
4 he needed to check the lines.
5 During our discussion he said she let him
6 right in. He found her phone in the dining room
7 area, began messing with the box, the telephone
8 jack, as if he was looking to find a problem
9 with it, made small talk while he was doing so.
10 In his written document it goes into a little
11 more detail about his thoughts at the time and
12 what he was planning to do.
13 Q. Okay. What does it say?
14 A. As he was -- according to the written document,
15 as he was making the small talk with her, he was
16 trying to decide whether this was a go or a no
17 go, in his words. He also describes, in the
18 written document, not getting in so easily.
19 Vicki, according to the document, had several
20 questions for him at the door.
21 The Wegerles had a dog in the back yard and
22 at one point Vicki wanted to let the dog in the
23 house so that Rader, the phone repair guy, could
24 go to the back yard; however, he was able to
25 talk her into leaving the dog in the back yard
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1 and he would check the lines in the house first.
2 Q. So when he initially is talking to Detective
3 Otis and Detective Gouge, he doesn't portray
4 Vicki as having that much problem, it was an
5 easy deal for him to get in?
6 A. It seemed much easier in our discussion than it
7 did in his written document, yeah.
8 Q. In his written document is indicated to have
9 been written closer in time to the murder?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Now, this photograph behind you is also taken by
12 crime scene investigators at the -- when they
13 were called to that home?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And this shows her dining room and her telephone
16 in that dining room is circled there?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Thank you. Go ahead. So he tells her oh, well,
19 the phone's working and then what does he do?
20 A. He states that in his bag he had his handgun,
21 which was a semiautomatic handgun, he pulled it
22 out, pointed it at her and told her let's go
23 back to the bedroom. He said, in our interview,
24 that he -- she expressed some concern about her
25 child. He was able to control her by fear of
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1 the gun and get her back to the bedroom.
2 Q. In fact, he told you that she said how about my
3 kid. And he said I don't know about your kid?
4 A. Exactly.
5 Q. And she also made an attempt to try to get him
6 to understand her husband was coming home?
7 A. She made several comments to him about my
8 husband will be either coming home or calling
9 any minute.
10 Q. And Rader said well, I hope not too soon?
11 A. He said I hope he doesn't come home, yeah.
12 Q. This crime scene photograph, also taken at that
13 time, basically is a view of -- into the
14 entrance of the Wegerle bedroom?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. So if you're walking down the hall and if the
17 individual's not like right on that portion of
18 the bed, you're not going to see much?
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. Unless you actually go in the room?
21 A. Where her body was positioned, which I think we
22 have photos of, you would have to actually enter
23 the bedroom a few feet to see where she was
24 laying.
25 Q. So even though there was, maybe unfortunately,
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1 some speculation about him not finding her, Bill
2 not finding her for some time, when you look at
3 this situation as a cold case detective and
4 looking back at these photographs, it's not so
5 amazing that if she was not right there, he
6 wouldn't have seen her without looking around?
7 A. No. That was understandable, yes.
8 Q. Go ahead, please. Now, he wanted to -- Rader,
9 meaning he, wanted to let you know the materials
10 that he used at that time. And what did he tell
11 you?
12 A. He said that he was experimenting with some
13 leather laces. They looked to be leather boot
14 laces that go into work boots or hunting boots.
15 And he made that comment at the bottom, leather
16 up, you know. And no, I don't know, so I'm not
17 sure what that means, either.
18 Q. And he describes it as experimenting, is this
19 kind of the manner in which he spoke to you?
20 A. Yeah, he was -- Mr. -- Mr. Rader was very
21 nonchalant, far more than I ever expected. He
22 was -- it was like we were talking over coffee,
23 as if he was relaying a fishing story.
24 Q. And he expected you to know what leather up
25 meant?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. I'm going to put
3 on the screen, it's a graphic photograph,
4 actually there are three photographs and one
5 slide, depicting just the feet and the wrists of
6 Vicki Wegerle. Now, these were taken at the
7 time of her autopsy and show the bindings on
8 each of her wrists and also, the bindings of her
9 ankles; is that correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And those, of course, were maintained in
12 evidence, but this is what he was referring to
13 when he spoke to you as leathering up?
14 A. Apparently.
15 Q. Thank you. Of course, you continue discussing
16 the details of this and what does he tell you?
17 A. He said that after tying her ankles and her
18 wrists, he put her down on the bed; however, the
19 bindings on the wrists came free. She either
20 broke out of them or got out of them or they
21 came loose and started to fight with him.
22 Q. Okay. And this is a view of that bed. And the
23 purpose for showing this photograph, the crime
24 scene photograph of the bed, what was the
25 purpose of taking this picture, you think?
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1 A. Well, as you can see in the bottom right of the
2 photograph, the comforter, the bedspread is
3 messed up. That's a waterbed and you can see
4 that the comforter is moved. It did appear to
5 the investigators in '86 that there had been
6 some type of activity on the bed.
7 Q. And Rader then confirmed that to you?
8 A. He did.
9 Q. By saying some more things describing their
10 fight; is that correct?
11 A. Right.
12 Q. And what did he tell you?
13 A. He said they rolled around on the bed, he was
14 trying to gain control of her again, once she
15 got loose of the wrist bonds, and that they
16 ended up on the floor. And that is a quote from
17 him, she was fighting for her life and he was
18 trying to take her down.
19 Q. So again, he recognizes the fighting, that she
20 knows that he's trying to kill her?
21 A. And even more so in the written document.
22 Q. All right. Is there something that you recall
23 that -- from that document related to this?
24 A. In the document he makes a -- one of his
25 portions of it is that when he had her on the
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1 bed, he pulled out his his strangler rig and
2 that once she saw that strangler rig she began
3 to pray.
4 Q. And so she was praying in this bedroom. And
5 this shows basically the foot of the bed?
6 A. Yeah. That's actually the left side of the bed
7 and then the foot of the bed would be here. You
8 can see the dresser with the television and the
9 other dresser to the -- what would be the right
10 side of the bed if you're --
11 Q. And there is a pointer right there, a laser
12 pointer.
13 A. Yes, ma'am.
14 Q. Could you kind of show where her body was
15 basically located?
16 A. It doesn't show in the photo, but basically it's
17 in this area here (indicating).
18 Q. Thank you. Now, he described that fight. In
19 fact, she did, knowing that he was trying to
20 kill her, he describes it as fighting like a
21 hell cat?
22 A. Yes, that's how he described it.
23 Q. And when he was talking to you, you talked to
24 him after Detective Clint Snyder had talked to
25 him about Kathy Bright?
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1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And so when he said the words she fought like a
3 hell cat, too, he was referring to Kathy Bright?
4 A. He was. And he would add that she fought
5 actually -- Vicki fought harder.
6 Q. Now, when he told you that, he also mentioned to
7 you another little problem that she presented
8 for him. And what was that?
9 A. He said that during the fight she nicked him and
10 indicated that she had scratched him and he had
11 said on his face. In his written document he
12 documented her scratching him on his neck.
13 Q. All right. In fact, he said something to you on
14 the order that you might be able to see it, I
15 think?
16 A. He actually asked me in the interview if I could
17 see -- apparently he thought he had a scar. I
18 couldn't see anything where he was pointing.
19 Q. You've attended quite a few autopsies in the
20 course of your work as a homicide investigator?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And you've seen evidence from individuals who
23 have been attacked and indicated things on their
24 body that would indicate struggle?
25 A. Yes.
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 Q. All right. And when you looked at the autopsy
2 photographs of Vicki Wegerle, was it apparent to
3 you from those photographs that she had
4 struggled with her attacker?
5 A. Oh, very apparent.
6 Q. Okay. Go ahead, please. We're going to show
7 two autopsy photographs. These will be of her
8 face, head and neck. Okay. Go ahead, please.
9 All right. Can you point out some of those
10 areas, in addition to the ligature marks?
11 A. There's -- and it doesn't show up real well on
12 the screen. There was an area of contusion or
13 bruising her by the right ear, an abrasion
14 appears on her right jaw area. And then the
15 ligature marks are numerous and it appears that
16 there was activity of ligature strangulation
17 that either was unsuccessful because of the
18 fighting, more than likely, and then areas where
19 the strangulation would be reapplied, trying to
20 get a strangle hold on her while she fought.
21 Q. Another thing that you're familiar with, you've
22 had an occasion to observe on the skin, face and
23 the eyes of individuals who are being strangled
24 or lacking oxygen, something that shows itself
25 in the form of what's called petechial
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1 hemorrhaging. Are you aware of that indication?
2 A. Yes, ma'am.
3 Q. That's probably not a very good way of phrasing
4 it. Why don't you describe what that is.
5 A. Petechial hemorrhaging is when the small blood
6 vessels in the face or in the eyes begin to
7 burst, due to strangulation or asphyxiation.
8 And Ms. Wegerle, from the photo, I did not see
9 her in person in death, but from this photo it
10 appears that she has some petechial hemorrhaging
11 on her right cheek, which would be an indicator
12 of strangulation, as well.
13 Q. Thank you. Go ahead. We have one other
14 photograph that shows abrasions to her ear and
15 head, if you'll just point to that?
16 A. Yes, ma'am. There's a bruise and an abrasion
17 here and then some more marked bruising here,
18 behind the right here.
19 Q. Now, Lieutenant Landwehr had an -- and Agent
20 Morton, from the FBI, had interviewed Mr. Rader
21 prior to the time that you interviewed him?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And you're aware that during that discussion he
24 had talked to them about -- about this happening
25 to him, about her scraping him?
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
28
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. All right. Now, we have a quote from his
3 interview here, where he's describing to you
4 that she either scratched me -- and then he says
5 I know you guys got some stuff on her
6 fingernail?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Now, that was because of his interaction with
9 Lieutenant Landwehr, where that was discussed
10 and described?
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. It's not because he knew it from something he
13 read in the paper or anything like that?
14 A. No, that was a -- the fact that we had found DNA
15 under her fingernails was not released publicly
16 at that point.
17 Q. In fact, he invited you to sort of look, you
18 know, at his head and face and neck area to see
19 if you could see where he had been scratched?
20 A. That is correct.
21 Q. Because he thought he might still have a scar or
22 something?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did you do that?
25 A. I did. I didn't see anything.
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
29
1 Q. Didn't see anything. Okay. Thank you. We'll
2 have -- this is an autopsy photograph of only
3 the left hand of Vicki Wegerle. And ultimately,
4 as it turns out, that this hand is a picture of
5 her hand at the time of autopsy?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And fingernail scrapings were taken at that
8 time?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now, at the time when these fingernail scrapings
11 were taken, in 1985, what was the purpose of
12 doing that?
13 A. In 1986, the technology for --
14 Q. I mean '86.
15 A. -- technology for DNA was in its infancy.
16 Fingernail scrapings were taken as a routine
17 part of a homicide autopsy, because analysts
18 would actually look microscopically for human
19 skin under the fingernails, to give them an
20 indication as to whether the victim was able to
21 scratch her attacker.
22 Q. So they did a process where they scraped it out
23 and saved it in a tin?
24 A. Correct.
25 Q. And indicated where it came from on the outside
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
30
1 and sealed it. So they're looking for skin, as
2 you indicated?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. But if there were blood present, that would not
5 necessarily be useful to them at that time?
6 A. You know, they probably could have done basic
7 serology on blood; however, there was certainly
8 not routine DNA testing in 1986.
9 Q. Go ahead, please. So this happened September
10 18th, 1986. Steve Katchis, who was with the
11 Wichita Police Department for some time as a lab
12 investigator, took and preserved those
13 fingernail scrapings?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. From both of her hands, actually?
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. But it turns out to be her left hand that caught
18 the killer?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. 2/14, of the year 2000, you were assigned this
21 cold case review and you took those scrapings,
22 after looking at all of the evidence in this
23 case and realizing those were still there, you
24 took those to the Sedgwick County Regional
25 Forensic Science Center for DNA examination?
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
31
1 A. Detective Gouge and I took several pieces of
2 evidence for DNA examination to the Science
3 Center, including the fingernail scrapings.
4 Q. Then the next event related to this is August
5 14th of '03. And Daniel Fahnestock, who is a
6 DNA analyst, he notifies you about what he had
7 discovered; is that right?
8 A. That's correct.
9 Q. And what did he discover?
10 A. The DNA lab found unknown donor, unknown male
11 donor DNA, from the fingernail scrapings from
12 the autopsy. It appeared to be -- to us to be
13 killer DNA, the killer's DNA was left behind.
14 Q. And that was, in particular, as we've said, the
15 left hand. Go ahead. Then on April the 4th --
16 April the 2nd, I'm sorry, of 2004, you got
17 another report from a different DNA analyst that
18 works at the same location, Shelly Steadman.
19 And what did she tell you?
20 A. Lieutenant Landwehr had submitted the blue robe
21 from the Fox scene and other items for DNA
22 testing from the BTK cold case. After the DNA
23 examination was done on those items we learned
24 that the DNA profile found on the Nancy Fox
25 robe, unknown male donor, matched the unknown
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
32
1 male donor from the Wegerle scene.
2 Q. And that was, when we're speaking of the blue
3 robe, we're actually speaking of that blue
4 nightgown that Ms. Foulston had in here and was
5 showing to Detective Relph that had been -- had
6 cutouts?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. And that's where we found a match to this
9 fingernail scraping?
10 A. Correct.
11 Q. Go ahead. Then on just a few days later, the
12 same analyst, Shelly Steadman, April 9th of '04,
13 she advised you of what?
14 A. She contacted Lieutenant Landwehr to tell him
15 that the rest of the BTK evidence was undergoing
16 testing, that Lieutenant Landwehr had submitted,
17 and that there was another match for DNA to the
18 two items we previously talked about and in the
19 basement floor of the Otero scene. The semen
20 that was recovered from that scene matched our
21 other two items, as well. So we had a three-way
22 match of DNA.
23 Q. So we have Lab Investigator Ron Eggleston, also
24 had been with the Wichita Police Department for
25 some time in that capacity, from the Otero crime
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
33
1 scene?
2 A. Correct.
3 Q. And that area of the floor, shown by Kevin
4 O'Connor in the picture when he was discussing
5 this with the KBI, Mr. Thomas, I believe, Larry
6 Thomas, we could see that location on the floor
7 where they had taken several DNA -- or swabs,
8 not for DNA at that time, but swabbings to try
9 to collect and preserve that evidence?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And in fact, it was preserved to the extent by
12 those -- that lab investigator to the -- it made
13 a match in 2004?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, fast forward to February 25th, of the year
16 2005, when Dennis Rader is arrested. Detective
17 Dana Gouge was asked to collect swabs from
18 Rader; is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. All right. And do you have knowledge of where
21 that was done? And I have a word up there, it's
22 sometimes called buccal or buccal swabs. And
23 how did that process happen and did you observe
24 it happening with Rader?
25 A. I did. Detective Gouge executed a search
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
34
1 warrant we had for Rader's DNA on the date of
2 his arrest. Buccal or buccal swabs are simply
3 oral cheek swabs, taken with a long Q-Tip.
4 Gouge took those, several of those swabs from
5 Rader, took the cheek swabs pursuant to the
6 warrant, collected them, submitted them and they
7 were immediately taken to two separate labs for
8 examination and comparison to our known DNA that
9 we already had.
10 Q. Why take them to two separate labs?
11 A. We used two labs for verification purposes. We
12 used our local Sedgwick County Regional Forensic
13 Science Center DNA lab and we also utilized the
14 KBI lab in Topeka, so that we would have two
15 tests, same sample, verification testing.
16 Q. And so Shelly Steadman, with the Sedgwick County
17 Regional Forensic Science Center, and Sindey
18 Scheuler, with the Kansas Bureau of
19 Investigation, also a DNA analyst, on February
20 the 26th of '05, began working on those samples
21 that you had taken from Rader?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And can you describe it -- they worked through
24 the night, didn't they?
25 A. They did, non-stop.
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
35
1 Q. And were they working together at all, calling
2 up to see what your answer is?
3 A. Not that I know of, but I wasn't there. But I
4 don't believe so.
5 Q. Did they arrive at a same -- at a similar
6 answer?
7 A. They did.
8 Q. And that was what?
9 A. That was, in very simple terms, the DNA matched
10 from all of those crime scenes with Dennis
11 Rader's known DNA and that he was the BTK
12 killer.
13 Q. Now, there's a thing that they do with DNA and
14 that is a statistical evaluation?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And they say what is the probability of
17 selecting an unrelated individual at random from
18 the Caucasian population?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And at the Sedgwick County Regional Forensic
21 Science Center they tested at 15 loci and what
22 is that number?
23 A. The statistical number given to us by Shelly and
24 the people at the DNA lab here were the odds of
25 it being someone other than Dennis Rader, to put
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
36
1 it in very simple terms, would be one in 819
2 quadrillion people.
3 Q. Now, back to Rader's version of how he continued
4 to make sure that Vicki Wegerle was dead, what
5 did he do?
6 A. As it says on the screen, he got her down,
7 continued to strangle her. He was able to get
8 his hand on a nylon stocking that was available
9 there in a drawer in the dresser. He used that
10 nylon stocking, wrapped it around her neck,
11 which he would state, would tell me gave him the
12 added pressure that he needed to take her down
13 and put her down and he killed her by strangling
14 her.
15 Q. In fact, the picture behind you, the crime scene
16 photograph taken of an open drawer there in her
17 home, where it appears that she kept pantyhose
18 and socks?
19 A. Yes, ma'am.
20 Q. Thank you. Go ahead. This is a graphic
21 photograph, there will be two photographs, they
22 do not actually show her face, but a portion of
23 Vicki Wegerle's neck. Go ahead. This shows the
24 pantyhose at her neck?
25 A. It does.
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
37
1 Q. All right. And the manner in which they were
2 tied. And then the next photograph shows a
3 different view of those strangulation marks or
4 ligature marks that we've talked about?
5 A. Yes. And just for information, the tape here
6 that's visible in both of the photos is from the
7 medical treatment, the resuscitation efforts, it
8 was not applied -- it was applied by the medics.
9 It is not part of the crime.
10 Q. Because there was some hope at that time that
11 maybe they could save her?
12 A. There was an extensive attempt to resuscitate
13 her by the paramedics and by the emergency room
14 physicians.
15 Q. Thank you. Now, he started worrying about her
16 husband coming home and describes it as a real
17 nice mess. This photograph is of that bedroom
18 floor that we really couldn't see in the other
19 picture, but you could see the dresser in the
20 back. And this is where Bill Wegerle found
21 Vicki?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. All right. And go to the next one. These two
24 photographs, also crime scene photographs, they
25 show those -- that hose that was there and the
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
38
1 leather shoe lace and another -- a knife. Can
2 you tell us about that?
3 A. The stocking and the leather laces were wrapped
4 around her head, neck and mouth. Bill Wegerle
5 used his own pocket knife, when he found her,
6 and used that to cut those bindings from her,
7 trying to save her life.
8 Q. Now, these communications that Rader decided to
9 send to various members of the media or just
10 tape on signs or somehow get to the -- to you,
11 he had sent a basically a black and white sheet
12 of paper that was a copy of the Vicki Wegerle
13 driver's license and three photographs taken of
14 her at the time of her murder?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Now, one of the things that was -- those
17 photographs were immediately recognized as most
18 likely coming from someone who killed her?
19 A. I think they had to come from her killer, yes.
20 Q. But you knew that early, because at the time
21 they had actually removed her out, trying to
22 save her life, as you've described, and no one
23 had taken crime scene photographs of her laying
24 on that floor?
25 A. Yes. Her body was not present in the house when
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
39
1 the police arrived. There were no photographs
2 of the crime scene which contained her body.
3 She had been transported out.
4 Q. And behind you this is basically another copy
5 for the screen that indicates that when it was
6 sent and this communication was sent to Hurst
7 Laviana -- or it arrived at the Eagle, Hurst
8 Laviana discovered it and eventually turned it
9 over to the police?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Go ahead. Now, in your discussion with him,
12 because you had this sheet of paper or this
13 communication, did you talk to him about taking
14 these pictures?
15 A. I did.
16 Q. And what did he tell you?
17 A. I wanted to know if she was alive or dead in the
18 photos. I couldn't tell. He said that he --
19 she was dead. That there were other things he
20 had wanted to do. He had certainly planned to
21 do other things, he'd brought the Polaroid with
22 him for those reasons, but that everything had
23 gone bad, as he said before, it was a big mess.
24 So he had time to snap three quick photos,
25 adjust her clothing in each of the photos, for
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
40
1 sexual purposes, before he took off.
2 Q. Okay. Go ahead. And then he points at the
3 first picture that you could see and tells you
4 what?
5 A. He changed her dress, moved her clothing around,
6 put a gag in her mouth after her death, snapped
7 those photos. Goes into a little more detail in
8 his writings, but basically that's what he said,
9 stuffed the gag in her, pulled her shirt up,
10 pulled her pants down in different photos and
11 then took off.
12 Q. Two graphic photos showing her. And these
13 photographs are -- showing now are the Polaroids
14 that you all collected when you searched his
15 mother lode, if you will?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now, his mother lode is something that he kept.
18 Where did he keep that?
19 A. In his office in Park City, at city hall.
20 Q. In a drawer?
21 A. In a drawer.
22 Q. All right. And these two pictures that he had
23 taken, which have been a -- they have been
24 changed so that they are not as explicit as they
25 were, there's been some brushing in some private
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
41
1 areas of Ms. Wegerle, but these two -- these two
2 photographs show her after he had stuffed, as he
3 said, the gag in her mouth and then one shows
4 how he pulled her pants down a little more, as
5 he described to you?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Go ahead. And then also, you found her driver's
8 license?
9 A. Yes. Her Kansas driver's license that had been
10 missing since the day of her murder.
11 Q. Okay. Go ahead. Now, he tells you this
12 statement, that as he was leaving he could hear
13 EMS. Now, that can't be quite right, because of
14 Mr. Wegerle coming. So what happened?
15 A. Correct.
16 Q. So what happened there?
17 A. Once again, the written document goes into more
18 detail. Basically Rader tells me that he leaves
19 the scene in Vicki's car, he goes west on 13th,
20 and his plan is to start dumping evidence
21 immediately, which he does. He stops behind a
22 convenience store at 13th and West Street, dumps
23 some items in a dumpster there, continues north
24 on West, to 21st, ends up by Sweetbriar, dumps
25 the rest of the physical evidence that he wanted
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
42
1 to get rid of and then returns to the scene of
2 the murder, returns to that area, because he's
3 going to dump Vicki's car close to the house,
4 because he's got to get back to his. And as he
5 is doing that, as he is dumping her car, getting
6 into his vehicle to leave the area is when he
7 hears the ambulance approach.
8 Q. Now, where had he left his vehicle?
9 A. He left his vehicle, according to him, in the
10 back parking lot of the Indian Hills Shopping
11 Center, which is right across the street to the
12 south from the Wegerle house.
13 Q. Now, this is a photograph behind you, also taken
14 at that time, because the police later
15 discovered his -- the Wegerle vehicle?
16 A. Yeah. During -- while the officers were working
17 the homicide scene, other officers obviously
18 were canvassing the area and did find her car in
19 the 1300 block of North Edwards, which is about
20 two blocks to the west from the scene.
21 Q. Okay. Go ahead. And this is just another shot,
22 a little closer of that. Now, there is an added
23 text here, talking about Bill Wegerle. Now, he
24 was obviously interviewed after this
25 extensively?
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
43
1 A. Yes, he was.
2 Q. And when you do a cold case review you're
3 looking back at things that people ask him and
4 stuff. And in your assessment of that did he --
5 did he describe everything in detail about what
6 had -- what he'd observed?
7 A. Bill Wegerle's story to the detectives in
8 September of '86, as to what he saw on his way
9 home, for lunch, he had reported driving by and
10 seeing what he believed was his wife's car
11 passing him in traffic, with a mail behind the
12 wheel. He got a quick glance at it, told
13 himself that wouldn't be her car, it must be one
14 that looks just like it.
15 Got home, found her car missing and then
16 assumed that he had apparently thought it was a
17 male, but it must have been Vicki in the car.
18 His story to the detectives in '86 matched
19 Rader's story as to the direction of travel that
20 he took when he left and that he was driving her
21 car. They passed each other.
22 Q. So upon questioning, you know, he starts telling
23 them about this event?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And the reports indicate an accurate
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
44
1 description?
2 A. Yes, he was accurate.
3 Q. Go ahead. Now, did you ask Rader a question
4 about what would have happened -- because he
5 said he heard the sirens and stuff?
6 A. Right.
7 Q. And what did he tell you?
8 A. I asked him what he would have done, had he been
9 stopped by the police for a traffic violation,
10 for any reason. I wanted to see what he would
11 say. And he said oh, Jesus, thought about it a
12 few seconds and said I guess I'd hope I would be
13 quicker with the gun than they would be,
14 referring to the police.
15 Q. That he would shoot the police?
16 A. He would shoot the police, yes.
17 Q. Go ahead. Now, this is a video still that was
18 obtained courtesy of KAKE, but this is a film
19 that has been out there being shown all the
20 time, but this is an actual photograph of Bill
21 Wegerle taking his young son, Brandon, out of
22 the home after police arrived?
23 A. Yes. That was taken the day of the homicide,
24 the film was shot that day.
25 Q. Thank you. Now, he wanted to let you know that
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
45
1 he did have, as you've indicated before, you
2 referred to a written -- a piece of a document
3 that he's written in longhand; is that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And you've had an opportunity to read it,
6 obviously?
7 A. I have.
8 Q. You've been talking about it. And is this a
9 copy of the first page of a nine page -- nine
10 page, longhand story, written by Rader,
11 describing the murder of Vicki Wegerle?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. Can you tell us, after reviewing that -- I don't
14 want you to read the entire thing, but
15 can you tell us if you've selected some things
16 that you think are relevant to this hearing,
17 that the Court has not yet heard about the
18 nature of Dennis Rader?
19 A. I did select some things that I thought were
20 relevant to this hearing, from these nine pages.
21 Q. Okay. Would you go ahead and tell us about that
22 or what you have gleaned from that?
23 A. To add to his -- I hate to use the word
24 credibility, but to add to the accurateness of
25 his story and to match up with the facts of the
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
46
1 murder, he describes the date, September 16th,
2 1986. He begins his planning for the murder at
3 about 10:00 a.m., according to his document. He
4 decides and talks about that he has picked this
5 house because it's a west Wichita victim,
6 talking about striking in the northeast part of
7 town before, in the southcentral part of town,
8 the southeast part of town, it's time for a west
9 victim, apparently so he can spread that out.
10 He lists the address of the Wegerle house.
11 He has documented some of his stalking, to the
12 point where he knew that the husband, or the
13 man, he wasn't sure which, would sometimes
14 arrive at lunch time or in the afternoon. He
15 lists a inventory of his kit that he brought
16 with him, which included some cord, a gag, a
17 camera, a knife, some gloves, some wrap, some
18 plastic bags, Vaseline, wire cutters, a pry bar
19 and his special strangling rig.
20 He goes on to talk about, prior to
21 murdering Vicki, he wanted to set a reason for
22 him to be in the neighborhood, he didn't want to
23 appear suspicious. So he made contact with an
24 elderly couple who live next door, to the east
25 of the Wegerles, which is verified by the
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
47
1 neighborhood canvas that was done by officers in
2 1986, that he contacted them with his
3 Southwestern Bell telephone repair ruse and did
4 pretend to check their phone lines. It was --
5 Q. But then if you go and contact Southwestern
6 Bell, since Rader didn't work for them, you
7 would not find him?
8 A. That is correct. And the older couple next door
9 were interviewed about any suspicious activity
10 and they did not mention the fact that a repair
11 man showed up that day; however, they were --
12 they were quite elderly at the time. He
13 describes the house and why he likes it, because
14 of the big deep porch and it sits off the
15 street.
16 When he makes contact with Vicki he sees
17 the small male child in the play area in the
18 living room. When he makes his entry, pretends
19 to check the phone, he pulls his gun out and
20 remarks and writes down that she was very
21 scared. He demands her purse and the keys to
22 her car prior to any other activity and gets
23 those.
24 He says that as this is going on, as he's
25 getting the items from her and holding her at
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
48
1 gunpoint, the child is watching. He tells her
2 that he's going to take her into the bedroom for
3 sex. She becomes upset and says that her
4 husband will be home at any time and begins to
5 beg him to leave her be.
6 Q. He describes it as begging?
7 A. Begged. He said please, she begs. Once again
8 he quotes that he gets her in the bedroom, tells
9 her that he's going to take these photographs of
10 her and tells her to get undressed. And she
11 begins once again begging him to leave her be.
12 He reaches inside the briefcase and pulls
13 out his strangler rig, at which point she begins
14 a prayer. He then begins trying to strangle
15 her, but the cord breaks on his strangler rig
16 and then she begins to fight him. She (sic)
17 documents in here how she has scratched him on
18 the neck and raked his neck with her
19 fingernails, but he's able to get her down with
20 the pantyhose and kill her.
21 He says she is dying now, it took a long
22 time to strangle her. I need to leave, her
23 husband may be home soon. Should I stay and
24 kill him? He decides not to because things may
25 get out of hand. He readies his camera, flips
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
49
1 her over, puts her arms behind her back, even
2 though they're not tied because she broke the
3 bindings, and starts to take photographs of her.
4 Takes the three photographs, which he documents
5 her body position exactly.
6 And then the rest of the note describes how
7 he left, how he dumped the evidence, what
8 evidence he dumped and that he then returned
9 back to work.
10 Q. So he had actually thought or entertained the
11 idea of waiting on Bill Wegerle, to kill him,
12 also?
13 A. It certainly appears that way.
14 Q. All right. Now, he also had with this a diagram
15 that he had drawn of his movements and of the
16 home and of the body of Vicki Wegerle, as he
17 left her?
18 A. Yes, that was with his documents.
19 Q. Also with his documents, again, news clippings
20 that he kept to remind himself of the murder,
21 this is in the black binder, in his mother lode?
22 A. Yes. And he had them all dated, as you can see.
23 Q. And finally, he was disappointed that he didn't
24 have time to really enjoy this; is that correct?
25 A. That's correct.
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
50
1 Q. And this is a quote, he didn't really have time.
2 And that's something he writes about, his
3 regrets, in that letter; is that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. PJ Piano, did he have an afterlife concept for
6 PJ Piano?
7 A. He did.
8 Q. And what was that?
9 A. She was to be his bondage slave woman.
10 MS. PARKER: I have no other
11 questions. Thank you.
12 THE COURT: Any cross?
13 MS. McKINNON: No, Your Honor.
14 THE COURT: All right. May this
15 witness be excused? Thank you, sir. You're
16 excused.
17 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor.
18 THE COURT: State may call their next
19 witness. State will call their next witness.
20 MS. FOULSTON: Your Honor --
21 THE COURT: Call your next witness,
22 please.
23 MS. FOULSTON: I'll do it. State
24 calls Sam Houston.
25
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
51
1 SAM HOUSTON,
2 called as a witness, having been first duly
3 sworn, testified as follows:
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
5 BY MS. FOULSTON:
6 Q. Good afternoon, sir.
7 A. Good afternoon.
8 Q. For the record, and what the sign says, is that
9 you are Captain Sam Houston of the Sedgwick
10 County Sheriff's Department. Is that correct?
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. And you were part of the BTK task force; is that
13 right?
14 A. I worked on part of the case, yes.
15 Q. Were you assigned to the matter of the homicide
16 of Dolores Davis; is that correct?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. And the date of death in that particular case
19 was January 18th, 1991; is that right?
20 A. That is correct.
21 Q. But in fact, Ms. Davis' body was not discovered
22 until subsequently, on February 1st, of 1991?
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. Captain Houston, at the time back in 1991, when
25 you were assigned to this case, can you tell me
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 what your rank was with the Sedgwick County
2 Sheriff's Department?
3 A. At that time I was a detective with the
4 sheriff's office.
5 Q. And do you recall how you came to be at the
6 scene of the -- of this particular case, back in
7 1991?
8 A. On that weekend I was the duty detective. I
9 received a duty call from 911, patrol deputies
10 were on North Hillside, requesting a detective
11 and a lab investigator.
12 Q. What did you learn about Dolores Davis at that
13 time, when you went to the address up there at
14 North Hillside?
15 A. Deputies had been called to that residence by an
16 acquaintance of hers and they -- the
17 acquaintance had gone to the residence to
18 contact her, found that the back sliding glass
19 door of the residence had been broken -- broken
20 in with a cinder block and she was missing from
21 the residence.
22 I arrived about the same time as one of the
23 lab investigators. The patrol deputies at the
24 scene are telling me that the acquaintance had
25 no idea where she was at, Mrs. Davis was missing
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 from the residence. It appeared to be that some
2 of the things in the residence were in disarray
3 and there were items missing from the residence.
4 Q. Now, the last that she had been seen would have
5 been on the night before, which would have been
6 the 18th of January, in 1991; is that correct?
7 A. That's correct. Friday night.
8 Q. Friday night. And do you know, had she been
9 with a male acquaintance that evening before?
10 A. That is correct. She'd been out to dinner with
11 a male acquaintance, they'd gone to the Red
12 Coach at 53rd Street North and I-135 for dinner,
13 had returned back to the residence on North
14 Hillside and he had bid her good evening at
15 about -- about 7:15.
16 Q. And had she had plans to see the -- her
17 gentleman friend the next day?
18 A. That is correct.
19 Q. And what time would that have been the next day?
20 A. Approximately around noon, around noon the next
21 morning.
22 Q. So at noon the next morning did he arrive then
23 at her home to find her missing?
24 A. He arrived -- that's correct. About 12:30 he
25 arrived, the plan was that he was going to wash
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1 her car for her and that's when he discovered
2 that she was missing from the residence.
3 Q. Now, did you indicate that her vehicle was there
4 at the residence?
5 A. When I arrived her vehicle was sitting in the
6 driveway of the residence.
7 Q. And did you at that time locate any keys to that
8 car?
9 A. Through the investigation the -- the gentleman
10 friend indicated to us that he saw a set of keys
11 up on the roof, above the garage portion of the
12 residence.
13 Q. So during the investigation you found that this
14 had been a home burglary, done by somebody
15 throwing a large cinder block through the glass
16 door into the home; is that correct?
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. Mrs. Davis was missing?
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. And that she had only -- she had been seen by
21 her gentleman friend, that would be a Mr. Ray,
22 the evening before; is that correct?
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. And she was no longer at the residence on the
25 19th?
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 A. Correct.
2 Q. What activities did the sheriff's department
3 take at that time in order to attempt to locate
4 Ms. Davis?
5 A. The patrol deputies were assigned to different
6 areas in the north part of the county, searching
7 the areas, the roadways, assignments were made
8 to them. Neighborhood -- neighborhoods were
9 done with the neighbors in those areas, to
10 locate -- see if anyone had seen anything that
11 had taken place at the North Hillside address.
12 Q. And did there come a time when you located
13 some -- one of the road patrol officers located
14 some items from her home that were close within
15 that area?
16 A. That's correct. Approximately around 7:30 that
17 night Deputy Matt Schroeder found bed cloth --
18 bed sheets and bed items on Woodlawn, just north
19 of 69th Street North, stuffed in a culvert.
20 Q. When those items were located were you able to
21 ascertain whether they matched anything in the
22 residence on North Hillside?
23 A. When I was at the residence and I made my walk
24 through the residence, the bed had been
25 stripped, there was no sheets, no bedding on the
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 mattress of -- in the residence.
2 Q. And the items that were in the culvert, what did
3 they consist of?
4 A. They consisted of a sheet -- or two sheets, two
5 top sheets, I believe that's what was in that
6 culvert.
7 Q. When you were able to visit with people that
8 were familiar with the home, were any other
9 items of interest alleged to have been taken
10 from that house?
11 A. That's correct. The jewelry box that was --
12 there was a jewelry box that was missing from
13 the residence. I was informed that a camera was
14 missing. There -- some of the drawers in the --
15 her bedroom were open and looked like it had
16 been gone through.
17 Q. Was there any particular types of apparel
18 drawers that seemed to have been rifled through?
19 A. The women's lingerie drawers were -- had been
20 gone through.
21 Q. As you continued to work on the investigation of
22 Dolores Davis as a missing person, did you
23 develop any immediate determinations or clues as
24 to her whereabouts at that time?
25 A. We didn't know where she was at. When we found
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1 the -- when we found the sheets in the culvert,
2 we knew that something bad had gone wrong.
3 Q. Were there any other signs around the house,
4 other than the break-in, did you note whether or
5 not the phone lines had been cut?
6 A. We did find that the phone lines had been cut on
7 the outside of the residence. We did note that
8 the phones had been pulled out of the walls --
9 or the jacks had been pulled out on the inside
10 of the residence. There was a -- Ms. Davis had
11 a cat, she had cats, the cat litter box had been
12 turned over in the residence. There were items
13 from her purse that were missing. We didn't
14 find a driver's license, we didn't find a social
15 security card. So there was quite a bit of --
16 quite a few things that were missing from the
17 residence.
18 Q. By appearances did it look as if there had been
19 a struggle in part of that home?
20 A. There looked like there had been a struggle in
21 the kitchen area, in the doorways going out to
22 the garage area, looked like there had been some
23 type -- something had gone on there.
24 Q. And also, that there had been some rifling
25 through personal property in the bedroom?
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1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. When was your next opportunity to have further
3 information about the whereabouts of Dolores
4 Davis?
5 A. In February -- in February, February the 1st, I
6 received a page from the office, stating that
7 patrol deputies were at a location at 3600 West
8 117th Street North. A boy was out walking his
9 doing and had found a body of a female
10 underneath of a bridge at that location.
11 Q. And what action did the sheriff's department
12 take at that time?
13 A. I went to the scene, along with several other
14 members of the investigations division. We
15 found a -- the partially clothed body of a
16 female at that location, underneath of a bridge.
17 We photographed, we videotaped, we diagramed the
18 location of this lady's body and --
19 Q. Were you able to identify her at that time?
20 A. At that time we had an idea -- I had an idea who
21 it was. We later -- I later took dental records
22 to a dentist, Dr. Squires, and had her --
23 Dolores Davis' dental records compared with what
24 Dr. Eckert at the time had given me from the
25 autopsy and they were confirmed that it was
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 Dolores Davis.
2 Q. And an autopsy was performed on Ms. Davis'
3 remains?
4 A. That's correct.
5 Q. And do you know what the cause of death was?
6 A. Ligature strangulation.
7 Q. And the body was not located then until
8 several -- a couple of weeks after she had
9 disappeared, January the 18th until February the
10 1st; is that correct?
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. And by that time had there been significant
13 decomposition of the body?
14 A. The body was in stages of decomp, yes.
15 Q. However, this was in January and had the weather
16 remained somewhat cold during that period of
17 time?
18 A. It was a cold January.
19 Q. And you said that a young boy had come upon the
20 remains of Mrs. Davis; is that right?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. And was this a remote area where the body had
23 been found?
24 A. It's a rural area of Sedgwick County. I believe
25 there's maybe one or two houses along that
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
60
1 stretch of 117th. There -- it's farm land,
2 there's not very -- there's not very many
3 residential area -- homes there.
4 Q. Was this case then reclassified from a missing
5 person then to a murder?
6 A. Correct.
7 Q. Now, at this time you had indicated that there
8 were very few clues or leads that would indicate
9 any individual who might be connected with this
10 particular case; is that correct?
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. And so was this case worked on for a lengthy
13 period of time, in order to look for anybody
14 that might have been connected with the death of
15 Ms. Davis?
16 A. Yes, it was.
17 Q. So did this remain, in essence, a cold case for
18 a number of years?
19 A. Yes, it did.
20 Q. Was there a time when this case resurfaced, when
21 a possibility of a suspect became apparent?
22 A. That is correct.
23 Q. Can you tell me when that was?
24 A. I received a call from Deputy Chief Lee, of the
25 Wichita Police Department, in February of this
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1 year. He advised me that they had arrested a --
2 or taken a suspect into custody in conjunction
3 with the BTK cases. He also advised me that
4 this may -- this person may be a suspect in the
5 Marine Hedge case and the Dolores Davis case.
6 Q. Now, you had been in the community as a law
7 enforcement officer for many years, since the
8 '70s; is that right?
9 A. I have been with the sheriff's department almost
10 29 years.
11 Q. And during that time the community has known
12 about the BTK killings. Had you ever connected
13 them with this particular case?
14 A. When -- during this investigation and when this
15 happened, we looked at the similarities of --
16 with the police department's cases, with Marine
17 Hedge, we looked at the similarities in Dolores
18 Davis. We had the FBI behavior specialists come
19 in. I worked -- myself and Sergeant Lee worked
20 with Lieutenant Landwehr and other detectives of
21 the police department, we compared things, we
22 looked at things to see if this case was
23 connected to their cases. So yes, it was done
24 numerous times.
25 Q. But in these cases the bodies were left at dump
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1 sites as opposed to being left within the homes.
2 There were a number of different things between
3 those other cases in the City of Wichita as
4 opposed to these cases in the county?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. Is that correct?
7 A. Correct.
8 Q. So back to when you talked to Detective Lee, did
9 you then have the ability to visit with Dennis
10 Rader in February of 19 -- or in 2005?
11 A. That is correct.
12 Q. And did you then find from Mr. Rader that he
13 indeed had been the murderer of Dolores Davis
14 and Marine Hedge?
15 A. That is correct.
16 Q. Did you then have an opportunity to speak
17 directly with him about the nature and
18 circumstances surrounding the murder of Dolores
19 Davis, back in 1991?
20 A. Yes, I did.
21 Q. Did you talk with him with anyone else present?
22 A. Detective Kevin Bradford, with the sheriff's
23 office, was present with me.
24 Q. And do you remember what date it was that you
25 visited with Mr. Rader?
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1 A. That was on February 24th, I believe. I have
2 that --
3 Q. It had to be after the 25th.
4 A. I don't have it right here in front of me.
5 Q. You'd be early if it was on the 24th.
6 A. It would be the 25th, I believe, then.
7 Q. Now, you've had an opportunity, have you not, to
8 review the videotapes that were taken in
9 connection with his statements that he made to
10 law enforcement officers?
11 A. Yes, ma'am.
12 Q. And you had an opportunity to spend time with
13 him independently about the Davis case?
14 A. That's correct.
15 Q. So I'm going to -- you've had an opportunity to
16 look at this PowerPoint presentation; is that
17 right?
18 A. Yes, ma'am.
19 Q. And you know that we went through and you
20 selected some parts from that where you had some
21 discussions with Mr. Rader and his answers will
22 be on the PowerPoint?
23 A. That is correct.
24 Q. So when we go through this, we'll just take a
25 look and ask you some questions about some of
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
64
1 the comments he made during the interview that
2 you had with him back in February of this year.
3 Okay?
4 A. Correct.
5 Q. Did -- there's a note there from some of the
6 commentary that Mr. Rader made. And this, I
7 believe, talks about how he might have come in
8 contact with Mrs. Davis. Do you recall him
9 talking about how he might have seen her or come
10 in contact with her?
11 A. He stated that he saw her when he was out
12 driving and he saw her and when he lived up in
13 that area, he was out driving around and he saw
14 her and he thought that would be a possibility.
15 Q. Now, she lived at 6226 North Hillside, out there
16 in the county?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. Is that right?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. As I understand, Mr. Rader lives right down in
21 Park City and that would be right down 61st
22 Street; is that correct?
23 A. Correct.
24 Q. Now, I have a map here and two small circles
25 just came down with a line. Do those
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
65
1 approximate the distances between Mr. Rader's
2 area where he lives, on the left, and
3 Mrs. Davis' home there on the right?
4 A. That is correct.
5 Q. So that would be what, about a mile and a half
6 down the road from each other, generally?
7 A. Generally.
8 Q. All right. So that would be in the same area
9 then out there by Park City and out in the
10 county?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And so Mr. Rader indicated that he had seen her
13 before or --
14 A. He'd seen her about -- he saw her at the
15 residence, he saw her either leaving the
16 residence or around her residence.
17 Q. And this indicates what, that he started getting
18 lazy?
19 A. He told me that he started getting lazy after
20 the last few years, with Marine Hedge and Davis.
21 Q. And so he was looking for victims within his own
22 neighborhood, is that what that appears to be?
23 A. That's what it appears to me.
24 Q. Now, you were familiar with the materials that
25 were taken during the seizure of property, by
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
66
1 warrant, at Mr. Rader's home and as well as at
2 his work site? Are you familiar with that?
3 A. Yes, ma'am.
4 Q. And during the -- there was also information
5 that was sent to -- by various communications to
6 different media stations?
7 A. That is correct.
8 Q. That's correct. You'll see here a copy of a
9 cover of a fiction novel that Mr. Rader had sent
10 to Fox News and another copy was also found in
11 what he terms his mother lode. Do you see the
12 title of that book?
13 A. Yes, ma'am.
14 Q. What does it say?
15 A. Never Kill Anyone You Know.
16 Q. Now, again, this is Mr. Rader having someone
17 that he's stalking or trolling in his own
18 neighborhood, he -- would he spend some time in
19 checking these people out? What would he do?
20 A. He told me that he would -- he would
21 periodically go by. He told me that at the time
22 he was -- he would go to the Kechi post office,
23 usually about everyday, and he would -- that
24 would give him an opportunity to look to see the
25 back of the house, to go by the house. He told
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 me that he went by several times over a month or
2 so period.
3 Q. In fact, did he think that Dolores Davis was a
4 man?
5 A. For a period of time he thought -- he told me he
6 thought she was. He couldn't -- she wore her
7 hair real short and he wasn't sure that it was a
8 guy or whether it was a woman. And then at one
9 point in time when he was going by, he finally
10 decided that this was a -- this was a female.
11 Q. Now, this is an aerial shot from the -- from
12 here of the county, showing her property's in a
13 pretty rural area out there at 61st and
14 Hillside. The red circle would be her home; is
15 that right?
16 A. That is correct.
17 Q. What's the blue circle?
18 A. The blue circle is some dog kennels. There's a
19 kennel there where people store their dogs and
20 it's just north and east of Mrs. Davis'
21 residence.
22 Q. Did Mr. Rader develop a name for Mrs. Davis as
23 one of his projects?
24 A. That is correct.
25 Q. What did he call her?
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 A. He called her Dogside.
2 Q. So that would be PJ Dogside?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. Meaning her --
5 A. Well, I asked him, I said -- I said Dogside?
6 And he said yeah, you have the dog kennels there
7 by her house and Hillside. So that's where it
8 came from, Dogside.
9 Q. Did he always drive a car or how did he get to
10 this area?
11 A. He told me one time he went out there on a
12 bicycle and he had checked it out.
13 Q. Now, talking about his prowling, what -- what
14 would he do when he'd go out and prowl?
15 A. He would -- he was trying to find a way into the
16 house. He didn't know how he was going to make
17 it -- make it into the house. During the
18 investigation the lab detectives determined on
19 the north side of the house where Mrs. -- or I'm
20 sorry, the south side of the house, where
21 Mrs. Davis' bedroom was at, it appeared that
22 someone had been standing out there, would stand
23 out there and watch, peeking in through the
24 windows, looking in through the windows where
25 her bedroom was at and they'd done that several
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
69
1 times. So -- and on the south side of the
2 house, I believe that's where also the phone
3 lines were.
4 Q. Okay. And that's a scene of -- a scene photo
5 showing that the phone lines were indeed cut at
6 her home; is that correct?
7 A. That is correct.
8 Q. Then we have a photograph of her cat. Tell us
9 the story of -- that in the family, that was
10 relayed about this particular cat.
11 A. In speaking with her son, Jeff Davis, he told me
12 that her mom -- or his mom had said the cats got
13 real spooked one night. She didn't understand
14 what was wrong with them, she thought maybe
15 there was an animal or something that was
16 outside of the residence that got them really
17 worked up.
18 During the interview with Mr. Rader, he
19 told me that on one of his attempts, that he was
20 looking in through the windows, the cat started
21 smacking the windows, he spooked one of the
22 cats. And so that -- to me, that corroborated
23 what Jeff had told me that his mom had related
24 to him, prior to her being killed.
25 Q. She didn't have any big Rottweilers or big dogs
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 there at the house?
2 A. No, she had cats. She was a --
3 Q. Just the cat.
4 A. She was a cat person.
5 Q. Now, Mr. Rader was involved in not only at work
6 at the -- as a -- with the -- as a dog catcher,
7 but also he worked -- did some other things,
8 including scouting; is that right?
9 A. That's what he states.
10 Q. Tell us about that.
11 A. He stated that he was really involved with
12 scouts. He stated that he used the scout thing
13 several times to be able to get away to do
14 his -- do his deeds. On the night that he went
15 to Mrs. -- Mrs. Davis' residence he was at a
16 scout function in Harvey County.
17 Q. Now, the boy scouts, you have some kind of boy
18 scout thing in the winter time out at the
19 Trappers Lodge; is that right?
20 A. Every -- yeah, that's correct. Every January
21 the boy scouts here in this area have what they
22 call Trappers Rendezvous. And that's always
23 held at Harvey County West Lake, in north -- or
24 in the western part of Harvey County. It's up
25 by -- north of Halstead, north and west of
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1 Halstead, Kansas.
2 And they go up to the Harvey County West
3 Lake and they camp out and it's in the dead of
4 winter, it's usually the coldest part of the
5 winter. They have a lot of mountain man-type
6 activities, tomahawk throws, old time stuff that
7 they would have, you know, simulating back to
8 the trappers in the 1800s.
9 Q. What grade -- what age group -- is this cubs or
10 is this webelos or who is this for?
11 A. Well, they have -- there are webelos up there,
12 there's boy scouts up there. Some troops or
13 some packs will take cubs up there. It's --
14 anybody that stays overnight, I believe, has to
15 be, now, in this day and age, has to be a
16 webelo, a second year webelo or boy scout. Any
17 of the kids that are younger than that cannot
18 stay overnight.
19 Q. What was Mr. Rader's involvement? Was he a
20 cub -- a leader there with this trappers or pack
21 or --
22 A. He was -- he was a boy scout leader, a cub
23 leader in one of the churches up there in Park
24 City.
25 Q. So did he have an obligation up there with this
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
72
1 trappers camp?
2 A. That's correct.
3 Q. And on January the 18th would he have had an
4 obligation, in 1991, the night that Dolores
5 Davis was killed, did he have an obligation at
6 that trappers lodge?
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. Tell me about that obligation?
9 A. He stated that he went up there on that Friday
10 night to set up the tents, make ready the camp
11 for his troop for the weekend outing.
12 Q. And did he use that outing for any other
13 purpose?
14 A. Yes, he did.
15 Q. What was that purpose?
16 A. He used that outing for his own purposes of
17 going to Mrs. Davis' house later that night, on
18 Friday night, and killing her.
19 Q. So as he says in his statement to you, that was
20 his alibi, his cover-up, to go up there and get
21 the camp set up so that he could pretend he was
22 up there and go slip into town and commit a
23 murder?
24 A. That is correct.
25 Q. So he goes up to this trapping camp from his
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 parents' house; is that right?
2 A. He goes -- he goes to Trappers Rendezvous,
3 that's where he's at.
4 Q. Where's that at, how far out?
5 A. That's in Harvey County. Harvey County West
6 Lake is approximately three -- you go three
7 miles north on the Halstead Road, then you go
8 three miles west to where Harvey County West
9 Lake is.
10 Q. Okay. Then what did he do?
11 A. He left there and he went to his parents' house
12 on North Seneca.
13 Q. All right. What did he do at his parents'
14 house?
15 A. He changed his clothes from his boy scout
16 uniform to his -- what he stated was his hit
17 clothes.
18 Q. His hit clothes. Are those kind of special
19 clothing that he wears?
20 A. He described them as dark clothing, so he
21 couldn't be noticed in the dark, that he'd blend
22 in with the dark.
23 Q. So then he leaves his parents' house and where
24 does he go from there?
25 A. He drives from his parents' house on North
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 Seneca to the Baptist Church on 61st Street, in
2 Park City.
3 Q. And that would have been on the south side of
4 61st Street; is that right?
5 A. Correct.
6 Q. What's over at the -- now, the Baptist Church
7 isn't his regular church?
8 A. No, but it was -- it wasn't, but it was -- he
9 was affiliated with that church because of the
10 boy scouts.
11 Q. All right. So he has a key to the Baptist
12 Church?
13 A. Yes, ma'am.
14 Q. And he's with the Christ Lutheran church. So
15 he's got access to two churches?
16 A. Yes, ma'am.
17 Q. All right. So he goes over to the Baptist
18 Church, so what's he going to do over there?
19 A. He goes there, makes his final preparation,
20 leaves his car and then he walks to Mrs. Davis'
21 residence.
22 Q. Okay. He's already got his hit outfit on and he
23 drives over there with his vehicle and parks it
24 at the Baptist Church. And this is Friday
25 night; is that right?
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 A. That's correct.
2 Q. Do we know about what time this would be?
3 A. It would have been around 9:30, 10:00.
4 Q. All right. By this time Mrs. Davis is already
5 home, having been dropped off by her friend at
6 5:00, after dinner?
7 A. They went to dinner around five, 5:30.
8 Q. Got home at --
9 A. At approximately around 7:15.
10 Q. All right. So now he's at the Baptist Church,
11 what kind of final preparations is he making?
12 A. He was making sure that he had his hit kit, his
13 guns and the items that he needed for -- for to
14 do what he was going to do.
15 Q. He needed to get ready to kill Mrs. Davis?
16 A. That's correct.
17 Q. All right. Now, I've got a picture of the Park
18 City Baptist Church and this is -- and we'll
19 show in another slide, this is on the south side
20 of 61st Street, out near Park City?
21 A. Yes, ma'am.
22 Q. Okay. Not to be confused with his church.
23 Okay. So then he leaves there and he does
24 what?
25 A. He left -- he left the church there on 61st
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
76
1 Street, he walks down 61st Street, past
2 Hydraulic, and then he starts angling up through
3 an open field on the edge there of Park City.
4 He gets up where that one circle is up to the
5 north -- to the top, top and right-hand side of
6 this picture, is a cemetery.
7 Q. Okay. Let's start right here. I'm pointing to
8 where his home would be; is that right?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. But he had come from some place different, his
11 parents' home?
12 A. His parents' home is 40 -- 4800 block of
13 north --
14 Q. South Seneca?
15 A. North Seneca.
16 Q. Right. So which way would that be?
17 A. That would be approximately down in this area
18 (indicating) probably, or over in here.
19 Q. Okay. So he's gone back actually from his
20 parents' home -- his home is in here where
21 I'm -- the first circle?
22 A. Correct.
23 Q. So then he's gone there. And this is 61st
24 Street?
25 A. Correct.
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
77
1 Q. This is where the Baptist Church is, this second
2 large circle; is that right?
3 A. Yes, ma'am.
4 Q. So he parks his car there. And then the red
5 line going to the north would be the area that
6 he walked, north on 61st Street?
7 A. That would be east.
8 Q. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. That would be
9 eastbound on 61st Street?
10 A. That is correct.
11 Q. Okay. Now, you indicated that he then went to
12 the north and east, to a cemetery. And the
13 second circle here at the top is a cemetery
14 that's located on Hillside; is that correct?
15 A. That is correct.
16 Q. All right. Now, why did he walk all that
17 direction way up north?
18 A. You know, I really don't know. He stated that
19 he wanted to come in from the north side of the
20 residence. I think he was afraid of being
21 spotted on 61st Street, because that's a fairly
22 traveled roadway.
23 Q. Okay. So this is just woodsy -- or I mean, just
24 land and --
25 A. In 1991 this was open field, there was nothing
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1 there.
2 Q. This is a 1991 map, isn't it?
3 A. That is correct.
4 Q. Okay. So this kind of barren field and just
5 kind of walking across there to the cemetery?
6 A. That --
7 Q. Okay. Then coming back down to the south and to
8 the east -- down south here. And then this
9 circle would be where Mrs. Davis' home was?
10 A. That is correct.
11 Q. And the kennels behind it?
12 A. That is correct.
13 Q. All right. Now, here's a photograph and what
14 does that show us?
15 A. This is the back of Mrs. Davis' house on North
16 Hillside. That is the sliding glass door where
17 point of entry was made into her residence.
18 Q. What's this out here?
19 A. That's broken glass from the sliding glass door,
20 shattered glass. This is another photograph of
21 the rear of her residence. There's -- the shed
22 here behind her residence, the little metal
23 shed, that's where we believe the cinder block
24 that was thrown through the sliding glass door
25 came from.
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1 Q. You discussed with him about the house and where
2 it was located. And that's where he told you
3 about why he called her Project Dogside; is that
4 correct?
5 A. That is correct.
6 Q. Okay. And again, the aerial photograph of her
7 property?
8 A. That is correct.
9 Q. Now, once he gets up to the home, he's still
10 stalking her, what does he see?
11 A. He sees that she's laying in bed, she's reading.
12 He's there for a little while, stated that
13 pretty soon the lights go out. He waits for
14 some time longer, until he feels that she's
15 asleep, in case she would hear him -- hear him
16 outside or banging around or whatever.
17 Q. And then that's when he enters through this back
18 door?
19 A. That's when he gets the cinder block, throws it
20 through the back sliding glass door and makes
21 entry into the residence.
22 Q. And this would be the room that he entered into
23 and that's the cinder block; is that correct?
24 A. That's correct. It's the family room or the
25 living room area -- portion of this residence.
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1 Q. Okay. Then what happened?
2 A. She came out of the back -- the bedroom. She
3 thought that she -- he states that she thought
4 he'd ran into her house with his car, it made
5 that much noise. She asked him, did you hit my
6 car with -- did you hit my house with your car.
7 And he stated that he was wanted, that the
8 police were after him, he needed her house, he
9 needed her car, he needed her money, some food
10 and then that he was going to tie her up.
11 Q. Did he indicate how she reacted?
12 A. She backed up. She backed away from him and
13 then she says you can't be in here. He said she
14 told him -- or she told him that you can't be in
15 here. And then he told her, he said, you're
16 going to cooperate. He told her he had a gun
17 and a club and he knew he had to take control of
18 it real quick.
19 Q. Now, he -- he talks a lot about control, doesn't
20 he?
21 A. Yes, he does.
22 Q. And control and factor X and things like this.
23 But by and large, in your discussions with Mr.
24 Rader, would you say he's a person that wants to
25 be in control?
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1 A. Total control.
2 Q. So in this circumstance, again, the notes that
3 he talked about, he said that's the control
4 factor. And then he starts to talk about how
5 you get them under control. And is this this
6 typical way -- or he calls it a ruse or a russ
7 (ph sp), but how you start to reel them in a
8 little bit?
9 A. Well, you know, he told her he had a gun and a
10 club and he was pretty forceful with that. And
11 then he kind of eased -- you ease them a little
12 bit, you start being a little bit nicer to them,
13 you tone it down just a little bit and try to
14 make them feel a little bit more comfortable,
15 which makes them a little more vulnerable that
16 something -- something bad's not going to happen
17 to them.
18 Q. Did you find that to be the same in all of the
19 other cases?
20 A. That's -- from looking at the other cases, yeah.
21 Yeah, I -- you know, he'd be real forceful up
22 front, then he'd kind of ease into it, try to
23 reassure them that it was going to be all right
24 and then he'd really go for it.
25 Q. And that was his way of how he got to control
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1 them?
2 A. Yes, ma'am.
3 Q. Okay. It says that he wanted to spend some time
4 with her, but she said that someone's coming.
5 And I see this quote from him, I could not
6 believe my luck in these places. I've always
7 got somebody coming. Now, that was Mr. Rader,
8 was he talking about all the other cases, where
9 all the other victims told him somebody's
10 coming?
11 A. Yes. I believe in the -- I believe in the other
12 cases, like in Vicki Wegerle's case, in -- I
13 believe in Shirley Vian's case, you know,
14 they've got -- they're telling him that
15 somebody's coming, they're trying to help
16 themselves, just like Mrs. Davis told him that
17 somebody was coming home. And you know, he
18 can't believe his luck in these things, he's
19 always got somebody coming, because he wants to
20 spend more time with them.
21 Q. So he really believes them?
22 A. Yeah. Yeah, evidently he believes them, just
23 like he believed us.
24 Q. Then he gets around to talking to her about the
25 car and some transportation; is that correct?
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1 A. That's -- that's correct.
2 Q. And then he here starts to -- he says I need to
3 get her out of here. What did he start to talk
4 about at that point in time?
5 A. Well, his ultimate fantasy was to take one to --
6 take one of his victims to a barn, to take them
7 to a barn, to pose them in the bondage, to hang
8 them up in a barn, to spend some time with them.
9 And he was trying to figure out how he was going
10 to get Mrs. Davis out of this residence. And so
11 he's trying to think about how he's going to do
12 it.
13 Q. And how did he accomplish that?
14 A. He put handcuffs on Mrs. Davis. He stated he
15 put handcuffs on her first, he used some
16 pantyhose, tied her legs up. And this was in
17 the bedroom, in her bedroom on her bed, and he
18 got her under control with the handcuffs right
19 up front.
20 Q. And then, again, she had said that you say
21 somebody's coming and then they'll find you and
22 they'll call the police and I'm out of here. So
23 again, he's trying to make her feel like if
24 somebody's coming, you're going to be okay,
25 don't worry about it, they'll find you and I'm
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1 going to be gone?
2 A. That's correct. He's trying to ease her, he's
3 trying to relieve her a little bit, give her
4 some relief, that it's going to be okay, nothing
5 bad's going to happen to her.
6 Q. But then she figures it out?
7 A. Yes, she did.
8 Q. What did she say to him, as he recalled to you?
9 A. He told -- he stated -- he stated to me that
10 when he took the handcuffs off on her -- off of
11 her and that when he tied her hands up with the
12 pantyhose and he took -- he took the pantyhose
13 from her ankles to her hands behind her back, I
14 think -- he stated that she knew what was going
15 to happen.
16 And he told -- he stated, she said you're
17 not going to kill me? I've got kids. And he
18 stated at that point it was too late. She told
19 me she had kids, you know, don't hurt me, don't
20 hurt me.
21 THE COURT: Mrs. Foulston, I think
22 we're going to take the recess for the evening
23 at this time. We'll reconvene at 9:00 tomorrow
24 morning.
25 (WHEREUPON, the proceedings were
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1 adjourned to the following day,
2 August 18, 2005, at 9:00 a.m.)
3
4 END OF VOLUME IV
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CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
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1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 STATE OF KANSAS
ss:
3 SEDGWICK COUNTY
4 I, Carri L. Miles, a Certified Shorthand
5 Reporter and a regularly appointed, qualified and
6 acting official reporter of the Eighteenth Judicial
7 District of the State of Kansas, hereby certify that as
8 such Official Reporter I was present at and reported
9 in Stenotype shorthand the above and foregoing
10 proceedings in State of Kansas vs. Dennis L. Rader,
11 Defendant, heard on August 17, 2005, before the
12 Honorable Gregory L. Waller, Judge of Division No. 5 of
13 said Court.
14 That thereafter, upon the request of Mr. Tim
15 Rogers, I personally prepared the foregoing transcript
16 by means of computer-aided transcription and that said
17 transcript is a true and correct record of the
18 proceedings taken by me in the Sentencing Hearing,
19 to the best of my knowledge and ability.
20 SIGNED, OFFICIALLY SEALED, AND DELIVERED
21 this _____ day of _____________, 2005.
22
23 ____________________________
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.
24 Official Court Reporter
25
CARRI L. MILES, C.S.R.