Transcript of Dennis Rader sentencing August 18, 2005 Part 6:  the testimony of Detective Kenneth Landwehr (con'd)

       vs.      )
  DENNIS L. RADER,      )Case No. 05 CR 498
 Defendant.)THURSDAY, 8-18-05
 S E N T E N C I N G   H E A R I N G
11 PROCEEDINGS had before the Honorable Gregory L.
12      Waller, Judge of Division 5 of the District Court of
13      Sedgwick County, Kansas, on the 18th day of August,
14      2005.
16   A P P E A R A N C E S
17      PLAINTIFF:
   Ms. Nola Foulston, District Attorney
18 Ms. Kim T. Parker, Chief Deputy District Attorney
   Mr. Kevin O'Connor, Deputy District Attorney
19 Mr. Aaron Smith, Assistant District Attorney
   Sedgwick County Courthouse Annex
20 535 North Main Street
   Wichita, Kansas - 67203
        DEFENDANT (Appearing in person):
22 Mr. Charles S. Osburn, Chief Public Defender
   Ms. Sarah McKinnon, Deputy Public Defender
23 Suite D
   604 North Main Street
24 Wichita, Kansas - 67203


 1   P R O C E E D I N G S
 2       THE COURT:  All right.  We are back on the
 3      record in State versus Rader.
 4       Mrs. Foulston, you may continue your
 5      examination.
 7      having been previously duly sworn on his oath to state
 8      the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth,
 9      testifies as follows:
12  Q.  Okay.  Need some room here.
13       Okay.  Now, this -- this came -- this
14      exhibit that was -- that's seen here in this bedroom
15      closet -- now, we talked about a 9-foot --
16      900-square-foot house, very tiny, little house --
17  A.  Yes, ma'am.
18  Q.  -- that was occupied by Mr. Rader, his wife and two
19      children; is that correct?
20  A.  That's correct.
21  Q.  I guess the -- you know, the question everybody wants
22      to know, maybe you can help answer this, is how did
23      the family not know or have any idea of what was in
24      these boxes?  Do you have any ideas about that?
25       MR. OSBURN:  Objection, Your Honor, that


 1      calls for speculation.
 2       THE COURT:  Well, I'm sorry, I didn't hear
 3      the exact question.  Please rephrase your question.
 5  Q.  My question was did Mr. Rader ever suggest to you how
 6      it was that no one in his family was aware of these
 7      items being in the home?
 8  A.  Basically he would say that they would be just common
 9      things that he didn't anticipate anybody questioning
10      and that his wife wouldn't look for them.  And I also
11      talked to his family members as well.
12  Q.  And what did they tell you?
13  A.  Basically that she -- Mrs. Rader would not go through
14      those items.  They just thought that was paperwork
15      when he was at work or something that he would keep
16      and that it was something that she wouldn't even
17      notice he had in there.
18  Q.  All right.  So these large boxes -- this was kind of
19      his closet?
20  A.  Yes.
21  Q.  Whatever he had in his closet was his business?
22  A.  She knew -- she stated that she wouldn't look into it.
23      It wasn't anything important.  Because everything was
24      always so neat and orderly, there was no reason to go
25      in and clean those things.


 1  Q.  Now, and this was an accessible closet to him and that
 2      was his -- his bailey wick?
 3  A.  That is -- it appears to have his clothing in it and
 4      that closet did appear to have his clothes in it.
 5  Q.  Right.
 6  A.  The southwest closet.
 7  Q.  And there's also another place within the living room
 8      area where he had stored a number of other items but
 9      they were hidden under a drawer.  And we'll see a
10      picture of that later; is that correct?
11  A.  Yes, a false bottom underneath a drawer in a closet.
12      And that's where some items were also hidden.
13  Q.  Okay.  So it wasn't actually something that was
14      totally accessible because it was in the under part
15      of -- kind of another hole underneath the drawer
16      space?
17  A.  That's correct.
18  Q.  Okay.  Now, we had looked in this box, and what does
19      he call this box?  The stash?
20  A.  This is one of his stashes, yes, specifically.
21  Q.  All right.  And when we're talking about -- again,
22      this would be unfinished clippings --
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  Whoops, sorry.
25  A.  Yes, these are unfinished clippings that have not been


 1      taken out and placed on index cards.  So these are
 2      things that he has clipped out at different times.
 3      This is a J. C. Penney ad, that sort of thing.  Just
 4      hundreds -- hundreds and hundreds of clippings of
 5      every type of -- I guess -- I don't know what you call
 6      them, the circulars that come in the Sunday paper.
 7  Q.  Okay.  So these are all ready to process; is that
 8      right?
 9  A.  Yes.  They could be cut back, some of these come from
10      catalogs.
11  Q.  Okay.  So this is a Sears or J. C. Penney's.  And
12      these ultimately would, then, end up either in that
13      notebook or on those little three-by-five fantasy
14      cards; is that correct?
15  A.  Yes, and they're all contained in these manila folders
16      with J. C. Penney written on the tab, that sort of
17      thing, so he could identify where they came from and
18      that way.
19  Q.  Some of these he's actually put in this book under
20      categories, like here's what, bras?
21  A.  Bras, sleep wear, nylon hole -- hose.  You will find
22      an original of one of his communications that he sent
23      to us where he makes clippings from these ads in the
24      mother lode.  Where he's pasted them on an actual

25      paper before he reduces them by copier.


 1  Q.  So there's even bridal wear, bathing suits and other
 2      types of items?  Even a number of children --
 3  A.  Yes.
 4  Q.  -- appearing.
 5       Okay.  Again, in this folder, the same -- I
 6      mean there must be --
 7  A.  Yes, more and more pages of ads taken off of the
 8      Sunday circulars.
 9  Q.  Lingerie?
10  A.  This is lingerie from -- probably a Sears or J. C.
11      Penney's, I imagine.
12  Q.  And more of the same.
13  A.  And again this is marked on the outside as J. C.
14      Penney.
15  Q.  Now, here is a blue binder.  And can you tell me
16      what's in this one?
17  A.  In the blue binder?
18  Q.  Yeah.
19  A.  This is a one-inch blue binder.  He will -- he has
20      some of his acronyms here with CN, TN, RN, CN, which
21      he will later reduce to those cards.  And he will take
22      through these and what he has done is he will put four
23      photographs on each page and he will start writing his
24      names -- what's the desire.  And also the names of
25      each one of these on his code that he will do later


 1      on.

 2  Q.  And he gives names to some of these items, does he
 3      not?
 4  A.  Yes.  He will have a whole list of every date that he
 5      cuts one out.  He will write the company name of
 6      Kohl's, he will put the last name, he will put the
 7      first name, and the middle name of the person that is
 8      in the ad.
 9  Q.  Does he make up names for them?
10  A.  I can't answer that for sure.  He most likely could
11      make up names but I do not know that for sure.  I know
12      one is named Mary New Madden from Kohl's.  New Madden,
13      Nola, and middle name is Wausau.  So I do not have any
14      idea he's making these names up or they're actually
15      listed on the magazines themselves.
16  Q.  Huh.  And that would be January -- February 1st of '01
17      from Kohl's, a New Madden, and he names the piece
18      Nola.  Huh.
19       He also has a list of what he calls his BTK
20      acronym list.  What is that?
21  A.  This is a copy of the original that was found.  This
22      was sent in the drop that occurred on January 25th on
23      Seneca Street.  We were sent a redacted copy -- or
24      actually a reduced copy of this in that mailing.
25      Basically he will talk about his afterlife concept of


1      victims for BTK starting there.  And he will list all
2      his acronyms so that we could understand his writings
 3      for him, including Chapter 1, the Chapter 2, the 13
 4      chapters that he was going to write his book about.
 5      And then he will use in some of those, in Chapter 1
 6      and Chapter 2 that we received, he will use acronyms
 7      for death by hanging, death by strangulation, death by
 8      suffocation, death to pretty girl.
 9  Q.  And that would be D --
10  A.  DTPG.
11  Q.  -- TPG?
12  A.  And -- but just basically what he was doing would be
13      making it easier for him to communicate, I would
14      imagine.  Or even when we went to Park City itself
15      after the arrest of Mr. Rader, he would use acronyms
16      even in his compliance office work.  That he had a
17      list of acronyms on his computer so that he could
18      under- -- he could -- he knew but others could
19      understand what he meant when he would write out his
20      tickets for whatever work he was doing for Park City
21      on that time.
22  Q.  Okay.
23  A.  So he likes to use acronyms in both places.
24  Q.  Do law enforcement officers use acronyms?
25  A.  Once in a while.  Not to this extent, no.



1  Q.  No.  Now, again, we're looking at these three-by-five
2      cards, and there are multitudes of these; is that
3      right?  We're just --
4  A.  I was -- hundreds to thousands of them.  This is not
5      all of it.  We're just looking at --
6  Q.  Okay.  This is --
7  A.  -- what's in this tub.
8  Q.  Okay.  This is nothing compared to what there really
9      is in evidence; is that correct?
10  A.  That's correct.
11  Q.  All right.  And would he use these -- I mean, are
12      these kind of like, you know, somebody would stick a
13      deck of cards in their pocket?  Would he carry these
14      with him in his travels?
15  A.  Yes, he re- -- stated in the interview that he would
16      take these cards with him.  He would pick some of them
17      out while he was working and driving around and that
18      day he would fantasize about taking, say, this one
19      here and he would say today I rode around with Stella
20      and she rode with me all day.  And at times he would
21      stop and he would fantasize about a certain place that
22      he was on his route or in town of where he would have
23      sexual fantasies of what he would do if he really
24      could get this model.
25       MR. OSBURN:  Your Honor, I take it the State



1      is seeking to introduce these into evidence?
2       THE COURT:  I do not know.
3       MS. FOULSTON:  They are so small, I wanted
4      the judge to be able to see them up close and personal
5      while I prepare to introduce the whole box, State's
6      Exhibit No. 27.
7       THE COURT:  All right.  Show them to defense
8      counsel.
9       MR. OSBURN:  I've seen them, Your Honor.  I
10      have no objection.
11       THE COURT:  All right.  We'll admit
12      Exhibit 27.
14  Q.  Lieutenant Landwehr, we had also visited just briefly
15      about other places in Mr. Rader's home where he might
16      have hidden away some other documents that were
17      retrieved during the search warrant, other items, and
18      is this the location that you had talked about?
19  A.  Right.  This is the -- what I call the linen closet,
20      where it had a drawer that's been removed.  That's a
21      drawer also at the bottom there that's been removed
22      and underneath that had a false bottom.
23  Q.  Now, in addition, as you were going through -- and the
24      items that you obtained from under there, what were
25      contained -- what was contained under that location in



1      that drawer stash?
2  A.  That's -- they were definitely -- these were some of
3      the books.  And underneath in that location was
4      actually a kit that contained rope, some flex cuffs,
5      also some pulleys and some come-alongs, what we would
6      call, if were working something like that.  And
7      basically these were items of hardware that would be
8      used maybe to put an eye bolt into a ceiling or
9      something.  And he would describe what he was going to
10      do with that during the interview.
11  Q.  All right.  In addition, you also found these books,
12      the book on the Methods and Madness of Monsters, the
13      serial killer book.  And also the Criminal Mind; is
14      that correct?
15  A.  Yes, ma'am.
16  Q.  And did Mr. Rader talk with you about these books or
17      mention that he had been a reader of these books?
18  A.  Yes, he had talked extensively.  And you will find
19      that he will use highlights.  He highlights certain
20      pages of these items.  Has actually scanned some of
21      these items to put onto his computer disk that he was
22      going to release over.  But we actually have some of
23      the items where he highlighted those pages from that
24      book on certain things.  Especially this newer one,
25      The Serial Killers, the Method and Madness of



1      Monsters.  It was actually published in 2004 after the
2      resurface of BTK.  And he is mentioned -- BTK, I
3      should say, was mentioned in that book.  And that was
4      highlighted and talked about.
5  Q.  I found it interesting during the -- the -- the
6      portion of the proceedings in court when Mr. Rader
7      began to lecture the judge about what serial killers
8      do or do not do.  Was that part of the information
9      that would be contained within those serial killer
10      books?
11  A.  Yes, the three words -- the three stages that he says
12      in our interview at the Epic Center and again when he
13      made his statement in court appear to be taken
14      directly from a chapter in this book by Mr. Vronsky.
15  Q.  Okay.  Now, you indicated that you found some kits in
16      Mr. Rader's home, these are photographs from that
17      retrieval under the search warrant.  What are these
18      items?
19  A.  These are some wet wipes.  This is a roll of duct tape
20      that's just setting on its end.  This is a rope that's
21      tied up.  A bandana, some handcuffs.  And these were
22      all contained in this Ford Motorola bag.
23  Q.  Let me hand you State's Exhibit No. 22.
24       I believe that's 26.  I'm sorry.
25  A.  Yes, I'm sorry.  It is 26.



1  Q.  Do you want to take a look at that --
2  A.  Sure.
3  Q.  -- tell me what it is?
4  A.  This is the items that were -- that are put there on
5      the -- on the desk.  This is a Ziploc bag that
6      contains -- I'm sorry, I thought it was wet wipes.
7      These are actually gloves.  These are rubber gloves.
8      Rope.  This is the tape still in its wrapper.  The
9      handcuffs and a bandana.
10  Q.  Look at those handcuffs, if you would.
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  What kind of handcuffs are those?
13  A.  They're not cheap handcuffs.  I mean, they're not --
14      they're not ones that kids would buy or anything.
15      These are actual functional handcuffs.  An off-brand
16      name.  I don't see Peerless which is what we usually
17      use in the Wichita Police Department.  But they're
18      heavy.  They would be unlikely that you could break
19      free from these if you were handcuffed.  They both
20      have a locking mechanism in the back so that they
21      cannot slip up and can't undo them very easily.  You'd
22      have to double -- you'd have to double lock them.
23  Q.  Let me see them.  So those are not regulation police,
24      but they are ones you might find in a security store
25      and be able to buy?



1  A.  I can't tell you.  I'm sure that there might be some
2      police departments that would use this handcuff.  It's
3      definitely the kind of quality that it could be used.
4       MS. FOULSTON:  All right.  The State would
5      move for the admission of State's Exhibit No. 26.
6       MR. OSBURN:  No objection, Your Honor.
7       THE COURT:  Exhibit 26 will be admitted.
9  Q.  Now, you call that a hit kit --
10  A.  That's what Mr. Rader referred to it as, his hit kit.
11  Q.  All right.  Then on the screen, there's another
12      photograph of another nylon bag?
13  A.  Yes.
14  Q.  Do you recall finding that in Mr. Rader's home as
15      well?
16  A.  Yes.  That was found in a closet.  That is a .25
17      semiautomatic pistol, Titan.  That was in a bag also
18      in his office -- or actually in his home.  Sorry.
19  Q.  Now, what is depicted on the screen there?
20  A.  This is a white plastic sack that contained folded up
21      cereal boxes.
22  Q.  What would he -- what were these -- the importance of
23      finding these at his home?
24  A.  We had at -- by the time of January 26th there had
25      been two communications that had been dropped by BTK



1      using cereal boxes, a Post Toasties box and also a
2      Special K box.
3  Q.  Now, were these found in the kitchen cabinets as if
4      they were going to be used for family meals?
5  A.  No.  These were folded up.  They were empty, folded up
6      and they were placed in that plastic sack.  And I
7      believe that there were others in a big box also that
8      were found in the house of several -- and I mean
9      several --
10  Q.  How many -- how many were in there, do you remember?
11  A.  I honestly do not know how many, the count, I never
12      counted them.  But I would imagine it would be four or
13      five.  But there are a lot more than that in the box
14      where he had folded them up.
15  Q.  All right.  And you also took a photograph from the
16      police department of these dolls.  Could you tell me
17      about the dolls?
18  A.  These dolls were found in his truck, I believe.  There
19      was a -- basically these dolls had been traced.  When
20      we received our communication -- the communication at
21      Murdock park was a doll known as a Brandy doll that we
22      were able to determine had been sold at a Dollar Store
23      at one point in time.  The second doll was the doll
24      that was found on Seneca Street --
25  Q.  Now, excuse me --



1  A.  Sure.
2  Q.  -- the one on Murdock was the one used for Nancy Fox;
3      is that correct?
4  A.  Yes, ma'am.
5  Q.  And the second one was the PJ Mex --
6  A.  Little Mex.
7  Q.  -- little Mex doll.  Okay.
8  A.  And that was found on Seneca.  And that was a Spice
9      Girl doll.
10  Q.  All right.
11  A.  Those were -- we did not -- we did not originate -- we
12      could not find anyone that sold the Spice Girl doll
13      new anymore.  We assumed that that was bought used
14      somewhere, maybe at a garage sale.  And he would state
15      later on that he did buy some at garage sales.  But
16      basically in his statement would say that he was going
17      to use these dolls to send with other packages.  And
18      he was preparing one for the Vian letter that he was
19      going to give us in March but we arrested him at the
20      end of February.
21  Q.  Now, was there something going to be different about
22      the Vian cereal box?
23  A.  Yes.  Starting with the Home Depot -- with the Home
24      Depot drop that came on January 8th at the Home Depot
25      on Woodlawn and 96, there was a -- he had wrote bomb



1      on there.  In this communication, he would describe a
2      residence, a three-story residence that he believed
3      that -- BTK's lair, as he had referred to it earlier.
4      In that communication, he stated that if police
5      entered this residence they would blow -- it would
6      blow up.  He put a design of a working incinerator
7      device that was in the basement.  He also said that it
8      had elevators and that sort of thing.
9       During his interview, when we were talking
10      about the Vian package, because of this, where he
11      first starts to say bomb on this Special K box that
12      was dropped at Home Depot, he will start to begin to
13      put together batteries, a flashlight, and some wires
14      in the next bomb so that it would be found.  And that
15      we would have to decide at that time, the dilemma of
16      the police department, are we going to disrupt an
17      improvised explosive device or are we going to try to
18      retrieve BTK evidence.  And he was going to have great
19      pleasure in watching the Wichita Police Department
20      come out and make that decision.  Are we going to
21      destroy evidence in a homicide case or are we going to
22      be safe enough to disrupt the device because we think
23      there might be a bomb in there?
24  Q.  Did he mean to terrorize the community by that action?
25  A.  I believe he meant to terrorize the Wichita Police



1      Department.  And most likely that would stop the
2      community, yes, without a doubt.
3  Q.  Now, the next item that is shown there is another
4      bucket.  Where was that located?
5  A.  This is going to be in the unattached -- there's two
6      storage sheds in the backyard of Mr. Rader's house at
7      6020 Independence.  One is attached to the -- one is
8      attached to the house.  The other is unattached in the
9      north part of the residence.  This will be in the
10      unattached.  That's going to be some belts, some rope.
11      Along with that at the bottom of this locked basket he
12      will have some pulleys and some tie-downs, eye hooks
13      to use to string rope.
14  Q.  Now, he had some plans for other ways that he could
15      commit homicides; is that correct?
16  A.  Yes, he had a great fantasy life on how he could
17      commit homicides.
18  Q.  And he had fantasies of using that to use in other --
19      another homicide or other homicides, pulleys, ropes,
20      cords, chains, et cetera?
21  A.  Yes.  He -- he discussed with us in this interview of
22      his last homicide, the eleventh.  His eleventh
23      homicide was going to be one where he was going to
24      wrap the victim completely in plastic.  She would, of
25      course, be strangled and he would stretch her.  He



1      would put eye bolts in the ceiling and he would tie
2      ropes to both her ankles, her neck and everything and
3      would stretch her out and put her on display at her
4      house so that when we walked in that we would see this
5      display of this victim, which he intended at that time
6      to possibly be his last.
7  Q.  And so you were also looking for those types of
8      materials that would be in connection with any plans
9      that he might have that he discussed with you?
10  A.  Yes.
11  Q.  And you found the items that would be towards that
12      end?
13  A.  He pointed out what these items were to us.  He,
14      again, was very cooperative with telling us these
15      items are going to be here, this is what I was going
16      to use them for, so that we would not disrupt his
17      social contacts, or his family, as he referred to them
18      as social contacts.  So we would not disrupt their
19      life by going in and doing a search warrant and
20      tearing up his residence.
21  Q.  Now, Mr. Rader had some discussions with you about
22      preparations for the homicides that he had committed;
23      is that correct?
24  A.  Yes.
25  Q.  And what kind of physical preparations did he make for



1      those homicides?
2  A.  One -- one item that -- one thing that he did was he
3      would always, of course, pre-plan.  But he was also
4      exercising.  He was out to exercise his grip.  And he
5      would use what I would commonly refer to as stress
6      balls.  That he would pump these balls to make his
7      fingers stronger, his wrists and arms stronger so that
8      he could easily -- more easily, I should say, strangle
9      a person because as he was getting older, he knew that
10      he was going to have some problems controlling
11      individuals.
12  Q.  Had he mentioned that about the Oteros in the initial
13      strangulations of the Oteros?
14  A.  Yes.  They were very difficult.  He even mentioned it
15      as early as October '74, when he was talking about how
16      the Oteros came back in his communications and how he
17      had to put too much pressure at one time.  So he had
18      always talked about that.
19  Q.  Was it difficult on his hands?
20  A.  Yes, that's what he said, that it was difficult and he
21      needed to get his hands stronger.  He didn't know how
22      hard it was.
23  Q.  Did he explain that it was easier with animals?
24  A.  Yes.  He had said that he had practiced on dogs and
25      cats and that they were much easier to kill than a



1      human.
2  Q.  I have what's been marked for identification purposes
3      as State's Exhibit No. 24.  I'm going to ask that you
4      take a look at this item.  And 25.
5  A.  This is depicted in this photograph that's on the
6      PowerPoint.  This is a stress ball that is "life is
7      good."  This was in the desk drawer of the -- in the
8      living room.
9  Q.  Can you hold that up for me, please, so I can see it?
10      What does it say on it?
11  A.  "Life is good."
12  Q.  And Mr. Rader told you that he would use that to
13      enhance his grip to provide better mechanism for
14      strangulation?
15  A.  Yes, ma'am.
16  Q.  And then open the next exhibit, State's Exhibit
17      No. 25.
18  A.  This is -- this was found at the nightstand.
19  Q.  By his bed?
20  A.  Southeast bedroom nightstand.  And it's an ADT --
21  Q.  He was employed by ADT?
22  A.  He had been employed at ADT prior to '91.  Yes, ma'am.
23  Q.  All right.  What is that object?
24  A.  Again, the same sort of thing.  It's a battle of the
25      badges, which -- which is a blood drive that we have



1      usually with the Wichita Police Department against the
2      fire department.
3  Q.  And you squeeze that?
4  A.  Yes, it's a squeeze to, again, strengthen the hand and
5      also to assist in getting a vein so that they can take
6      your blood.
7       MS. FOULSTON:  Move for the admission of 24
8      and 25.  Counsel want to see those?
9       MR. OSBURN:  No objection, Your Honor.
10       THE COURT:  All right.
11       MS. FOULSTON:  Did you want to see those?
12       MR. OSBURN:  No.
13       THE COURT:  Exhibits 24 and 25 will be
14      admitted.
16  Q.  Another exhibit from the search warrant of the Rader
17      home.  What does this depict, please?
18  A.  This is a bag that is found at the Rader residence.
19      It's actually a tool chest that is -- I believe that
20      it's also in the closet where the -- this bag will
21      contain two rolls of duct tape.  One is new, one has
22      been used a little bit.  The other one is an unopened
23      rope.  And there's some pulleys and that sort of thing
24      that are -- that are in there, again, in a bag that's
25      very portable.  I believe there's also a pair of



1      gloves in that.
2  Q.  And the pulleys are what you would use to toggle
3      someone if you put those in a ceiling; is that right?
4  A.  Well, what he -- that he described that --
5  Q.  Oh, that's what he --
6  A.  That's what he was going to describe what he was going
7      to do with these toggles and that sort of thing is
8      that he was going to put an eye bolt in the ceiling so
9      he could string up this elaborate bondage situation
10      that he would tell us that he had drawings of in his
11      mother lode that we would later find on the execution
12      of the mother lode at his office.
13  Q.  You actually found lots of torture schematics?
14  A.  Yes.  He had a lot of drawings of different devices
15      that he anticipated using or building at one time.
16  Q.  You also found a lot of feminine apparel at his home;
17      is that correct?
18  A.  Yes.  These were mostly stored in plastic bags.  They
19      were kept in the attached storage shed is where they
20      were found.  Most of these are soiled feminine
21      apparel.  He said that there would be stashes of
22      women's clothing.  But I did not ask him specifically
23      about this package.  That if this is from victims or
24      if it was things that his wife or daughter might have
25      used at one time and they just fell onto.  And we did



1      no DNA testing or any testing reference these items to
2      ascertain who owned them.
3  Q.  Okay.  The next photo shows chains and other items.
4      What would this be?
5  A.  This is a photograph taken by -- by Mr. Rader that
6      depicts, again, some of his torture items that he
7      would use for his fantasies.  And basically lay those
8      out and -- with a ball and chain and that sort of --
9      very elaborate type of bondage, sadomachistic-type
10      apparel.
11  Q.  And that he was engaged in?
12  A.  Yes, very much so.
13  Q.  Now, at his home he kept a library of different books
14      and also magazines; is that correct?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  And this is some graphic items, warn the media.
17       And you found these also within his stash of
18      magazines?
19  A.  Yes, these are in -- in a drawer.  These are
20      basically -- the name of one was Nasty Teens.  And the
21      others are cutouts from magazines.  Not the entire
22      magazine but certain pages of these magazines would
23      be -- would be brought in.
24  Q.  And this was located where?  Was this in his camper?
25  A.  Yes, I'm sorry.  In a drawer -- the drawer was



1      actually in the camper that was outside the residence.
2  Q.  Okay.
3  A.  I'm sorry.
4  Q.  That would be the camper he would use?
5  A.  Yes, on his trips when he'd go hunting or fishing.
6  Q.  Would he take trips to motels by himself?
7  A.  Yes.
8  Q.  What did he tell you about that?
9  A.  Basically he would go out on -- at times when he was
10      working for the census in 1990 and around that area,
11      that he would go around the state because he was a
12      supervisor and check up on other areas just to make
13      sure that the census was going.  During that time he
14      would send us communications -- during 2004 he would
15      send us communication about the haunts of Kansas of
16      where he was visiting.  And these would be basically
17      areas that he would travel, whether he was working for
18      the census or traveling for, say, a trip or something
19      like that.  He would go to an area, possibly look for
20      a victim.  If he found a victim, he might even come
21      back to that area and attempt later on to break into
22      that victim's house in an attempt to kill them.  We --
23      but he was never successful outside of Sedgwick County
24      in finding a victim that was there.  But he -- we did
25      find some burglaries and thefts that occurred while he



1      was out on these in different places in Kansas.
2  Q.  When he was on the road, did he take any of his
3      bondage things with him?
4  A.  Yes.  He would take his -- what he would call his hit
5      kit with him.  He would go as far on one occasion to
6      dig a grave for a woman he anticipated to kill up in
7      northern Kansas but she was not home.  But he would
8      take these things and items that he would steal from
9      their residences he would then take back to the hotel
10      where he would set up his tripod and his Polaroid and
11      he would take pictures of these items, of him dressed
12      in these items in different stages of bondage.
13  Q.  He also had collections of other types of magazines.
14      Detective magazines; is that correct?
15  A.  Yes.
16  Q.  And you found these where?
17  A.  These were obtained in his slick ads in some of his
18      boxes.  And I believe this one actually came out of
19      the office.  The green tub in his office.
20  Q.  Okay.  And all of these seem to deal with bondage; is
21      that apparent?
22  A.  These were early on in the new investigation, there
23      was thought that these -- that police detective stuff
24      was coming out.  And this came from not only
25      behavioral scientists from Quantico that were telling



1      us that he would be a fan -- that BTK would be a fan
2      of detective magazines because of some of the writings
3      of the people that he described and he emulated in
4      those early writings in '78.  Basically "The Pantyhose
5      Strangler" in Florida which we could never find as an
6      actual person was probably depicted in one of these
7      magazines.
8  Q.  And these are also another group of slick ads with a
9      child or young person and adults, that also these
10      would be those pictures that he would keep; is that
11      right?
12  A.  Yes.
13  Q.  Cut from magazines?
14  A.  Cut from those detective magazines that use that
15      bondage imagery.
16  Q.  There are going to be some graphic photographs coming
17      up of -- you indicated that Mr. Rader engaged in
18      self-bondage.  Can you tell us about your discussions
19      with him about that?
20       MR. OSBURN:  Your Honor, I'm going to
21      object.  I see what's coming here.  I think we've had
22      enough of this.  It's cumulative and it's not
23      relevant.
24       MS. FOULSTON:  This, Your Honor, goes to the
25      nature and character of the defendant.



1       THE COURT:  Well, I will allow it at this
2      time but we don't need to dwell on it for a long time.
3       MS. FOULSTON:  We won't dwell on it, Your
4      Honor.
6  Q.  What did Mr. Rader tell you about his need for bondage
7      and why he did what he did?
8  A.  He was aware of autoerotic -- what he knew as a
9      practitioner of autoerotic activity.  Basically he
10      would dress himself up in different clothing.  He
11      would put himself into apparel.  At some point in time
12      where there is a heightened fantasy of some apoxia
13      that would go on in an autoerotic situation.
14  Q.  Explain that.
15  A.  Basically the theory is that because of oxygen
16      deprivation to the brain, because of either putting
17      something over your face where you're not getting
18      oxygen or you're cutting off the blood supply to the
19      brain, that a heightened feeling of euphoria comes
20      when apoxia -- hypoxia starts in the brain itself.
21      And if this comes at the time of a sexual release,
22      this is supposed to give you a heightened thrill
23      fantasy.
24  Q.  Now, detective -- lieutenant, in fact, we've had
25      deaths in our community on those occasions where some



1      individuals have engaged in that conduct, have we not?
2  A.  Yes, several.
3  Q.  Several.  So Mr. Rader was talking about that as
4      something that would cause him to be more excited in
5      his activities?
6  A.  Yes, ma'am.
7  Q.  Did he ever get in trouble on occasion of doing
8      self-bondage?
9  A.  He related on one occasion that he was out on a Cub
10      Scout camp and that he was in the back of his camper.
11      And that he was in the back of his pickup and he was
12      engaged in that sort of activity and he basically
13      could not get out of his bindings.  And he was
14      panicked to the point where he thought that he was
15      going to pass out and he was going to have to call for
16      actual help, to have one of the Cub Scouts come out
17      and assist him in getting freed.  But finally he was
18      able -- because of the sweat that he was able to come
19      free from that.
20  Q.  So he didn't need the Boy Scouts to come to his aid?
21  A.  No.
22  Q.  We're going to show a series of photographs and we're
23      going to go through those.  And these are photographs
24      taken by Mr. Rader of his self-induced bondage, all
25      right?



1  A.  Okay.
2  Q.  And do you know where these photographs were taken?
3  A.  Some of them were taken at Cheney Lake.  Others were
4      taken at possibly a hotel or somewhere.  I'm not -- I
5      don't --
6  Q.  These are the outdoor ones first.
7  A.  These would be at Cheney Lake, according to Mr. Rader.
8  Q.  Okay.  And he would hang himself from a tree; is that
9      correct?
10  A.  Yes.  He will actually send us this letter in the July
11      drop at the library.  And he would -- he would, at
12      that time, will say that this is bondage of him and an
13      individual by the name of Jake Allen who was a victim
14      of a death in Sumner County, attempting for us to go
15      out and search the Sumner County death, which was
16      later ruled a suicide, as being part of a BTK murder
17      that might have occurred out there.  These items were
18      all taken and put on a -- these Polaroids were
19      actually taken down and placed on an ad and then
20      Xeroxed and then sent to the Wichita -- actually
21      dropped at the public library in July of '04.
22  Q.  Now, this photograph is of a grave.  What can you --
23  A.  Yes.
24  Q.  -- tell us about this?
25  A.  This grave was something that was dug up in -- in



1      January, we believe, or spring of 1991.  Basically it
2      was a -- something that he referred to as in Delores
3      Davis, is that he was going to bury a victim because
4      he didn't want his victims to be found at that time
5      and bury them.  And he was going to -- didn't get that
6      accomplished and so he went out there to take
7      photographs of himself.
8  Q.  How does he accomplish getting these photographs took?
9  A.  It's very evident there you've got a black cord that
10      goes all the way to his hand that reaches out to his
11      tripod.  And he explained to us that that was his
12      remote that he would do.  He tried to cover that up in
13      a lot of his photos, but he didn't always get it done,
14      because it took away from the reality of his actual
15      job.
16  Q.  He's using pulleys in this one?
17  A.  Yes.  He has some of the pulleys, ties it around the
18      tree and wrapped to bring himself up.
19  Q.  And are these done on his own time or scout time?  Or
20      when does he do these?
21  A.  The most I have on that is that he did them in '91.
22      This series of photographs were taken in '91.  I don't
23      know what time but it's during the day.  I don't know
24      if it was on the weekend or if it was during the
25      workweek.



1  Q.  Now, he writes on his Polaroids.  And this one says --
2  A.  Bondage at big river - climax as ropes tighten, spring
3      of '91.
4  Q.  Now, in addition to his bondage escapades, he also
5      collects bondage tools; is that correct?
6  A.  Yes.
7  Q.  And what do we have here?
8  A.  This is again -- these are devices that he took photos
9      of, where he would take a look at his -- some of the
10      magazines that we talked about, along with collars,
11      chains, ropes, thumb cuffs, that sort of thing.
12  Q.  What's this in here?
13  A.  Wigs that he would dress up, high-heeled shoes.  All
14      that.  He's got one of his dolls there that he's tied
15      up in a bondage situation so that he could fantasize
16      about that.  There's another series of these that he
17      lays out with Halloween masks or Mardi Gras masks as
18      well.
19  Q.  Now, in this photo it shows some clothing items.
20  A.  This is what he describes as his lingerie.  They are
21      the items that he took from -- from victims, either --
22      PJs, as he would call them.  And he would bring those
23      out and he would photograph and at different times he
24      would wear some of those items.
25  Q.  Now, you also found a collection of dolls at his home.



1      And this was one of his own pictures; is that correct?
2  A.  That's correct.
3  Q.  So he photographed -- these are all little doll shoes
4      lined up around here?
5  A.  Yes.
6  Q.  Okay.  He was pretty orderly, wasn't he?
7  A.  He was very orderly and putting things in order,
8      taking photographs of that.  He would -- he would take
9      these dolls, tie them up.  He would actually paint on
10      them to make them look older, whether it be pubic
11      hair, eyelashes, darker hair on some occasions.  And
12      then he would tie them up and photograph them in
13      different types acts so he could fantasize between his
14      kills.  He could use this as a fantasy rather than --
15      because he did not have a compliant partner right
16      then, he would use these dolls to feed his sexual
17      fantasy, he would state.
18  Q.  Like hanging his little doll here?
19  A.  Yes.  He could hang his little doll there and get a
20      double look by placing it in a mirror so he could see
21      the reflection in the mirror and the doll hanging
22      itself so he could get a front and back view.
23  Q.  Now, we talked about being organized.  In fact, he was
24      getting ready to organize his whole collection, wasn't
25      he?



1  A.  Yes, he was.
2  Q.  What was he going to do?
3  A.  He was going to reduce everything to disk by scanning
4      or putting things onto a computer, whether it be a CD
5      or a floppy.  He was then going to give back all the
6      original evidence to us or destroy it.  And then he
7      was going to take those items and place them in a safe
8      deposit box under an assumed name and hopefully fade
9      off into the sunset when he retired.  He was hoping to
10      get this done by the age of 69.
11  Q.  And he was 60 at the time that he started this?
12  A.  He was actually 59 when we arrested him but --
13  Q.  Right.  And then turned 60 in jail?
14  A.  Yes.
15  Q.  But this was all starting with -- his little test
16      purple disk was the beginning of his trial of this?
17  A.  He had actually -- he had actually reduced a lot.  We
18      have 27 floppy disks that had a series that were
19      recovered at his workplace and things that he had put
20      on his workplace computers.  And those items were
21      actually already starting to be put over onto that
22      disk.  The floppy disk is the first time that he sent
23      one to us.
24  Q.  Okay.  But his intent was to destroy all of the
25      physical evidence and then leave only the disks for



1      someone to find them or have them go into oblivion?
2  A.  That's correct.
3  Q.  We have some graphic photos, not for all viewing
4      audiences.
5       Mr. Rader engaged in sexual fantasy drawings
6      and tracings; is that right?
7  A.  Yes.
8  Q.  And you talked about that with him; is that correct?
9  A.  Yes.
10  Q.  And you saw some of those drawings and discussed those
11      with him; is that correct?
12  A.  Yes.  Well, I never had these drawings at that time
13      because --
14  Q.  But you found them --
15  A.  -- we had not executed the search warrants at the time
16      we were communicating with this.  But he was
17      describing these items to us and where we would find
18      them.
19  Q.  What did he tell you about them?
20  A.  Basically, again, this is what he wanted to do with
21      his torture chambers and certain things like that.
22      And he even brought up during our interview about
23      H. H. Holmes who he had wrote about and different --
24  Q.  Who is H. H. Holmes?
25  A.  -- killers.



1       He was a serial killer in the 1800s who had
2      been mentioned in one of the BTK letters.  Basically a
3      man that set up a house with torture chambers in it
4      and would lure women from the Chicago World's Fair in
5      the 1800s to that residence, dispose of their worldly
6      goods and then dispose of them.
7  Q.  And how would he go about actually -- I mean, he is
8      not an artist, is he?
9  A.  No.
10  Q.  He would engage more in tracing; is that right?
11  A.  Yes.
12  Q.  And did he describe how he would do these?
13  A.  Right.  He would cut these out from his slick ads and
14      he would trace them in and then he would draw these
15      other items on them.
16  Q.  And give me a guesstimate of how many of these torture
17      devices on paper did he -- did he develop?
18  A.  Of the actual -- I would say well over a hundred.  But
19      I never did count them.  But I mean, I've got two CDs
20      full of the scanned objects that I've reviewed.
21  Q.  And so they're all pretty much different, aren't they?
22  A.  Yes.  I mean, they are -- they're all on the same vein
23      but they are different in what part of the body is
24      being tortured or what's being highlighted in certain
25      ways of a manner of death possibly.



1  Q.  Who are the objects of his torture?
2  A.  Always women.
3  Q.  And of what ages?
4  A.  They will range in age from probably in -- what I
5      would say from the drawings, they're going to be in
6      their teens or 20s.
7  Q.  Are there any little girls in his drawings?
8  A.  I can remember one or two of the little girls, but the
9      majority are adults.  But there are young children,
10      yes.
11  Q.  Are these considered to be little girls?
12  A.  Yes.  Those are his little -- little Ginger.  You
13      know, what he says back there, little Ginger stop
14      while Mandy and terrible death.  Ginger got her neck
15      snapped with a rope.  Very -- appears to be a very
16      young child.  And this one as well tied up on an
17      ottoman.
18  Q.  And those would qualify, then, as -- in your review
19      and having been involved with many cases involving
20      pedophiles, would that qualify, then, as a child under
21      the age of 13?
22  A.  Oh, yes.
23  Q.  So his torture, then, would also go to children who
24      would definitely be considered in the range of
25      pedophile tendencies?



1  A.  Yes.
2  Q.  Again, some additional from tracings from the Rader
3      collection.  These the other kinds of things that you
4      would see?
5  A.  Right.  Standard -- taking from Medieval torture
6      chambers, from the Spanish Inquisition, that sort of
7      thing.  Plus some new things, like his liquid deal's
8      in the bottom.
9  Q.  That's here, over this way?
10  A.  Right.  Where he comes up with the idea of drowning
11      someone in their own urine.  Here he's -- this is
12      actually written all the way back, this is '78.  This
13      is shortly -- and this one here.  Shortly after we
14      will get the letter on the -- on the Fox mailed to
15      KAKE TV, where he is now starting to appear to send --
16      start to work with his -- his BTK symbol and has
17      different designs for that, as well as putting in a --
18      using his block letters which he used at the same
19      time.  I should say for the -- on the envelope and on
20      the Shirley Locks poem.
21  Q.  So out of the disks and CDs that you say there's an
22      enormous amount of these drawings, he -- he did these
23      as well as the other slick ads.  And these are the
24      kind of things that rather than, you know, hunting
25      magazines, we have slick ads.  And rather than house



1      plans, we have torture devices; is that right?
2  A.  Yes, ma'am.
3  Q.  You didn't find any house plans he drew?
4  A.  No.
5  Q.  You didn't find any hunting magazines in there, did
6      you?
7  A.  No, ma'am.  Not that I'm aware of.
8  Q.  I mean hunting animals.
9  A.  No.
10  Q.  Now, Mr. Rader was -- also discussed with you his
11      interest in the media following this case, didn't he?
12  A.  Yes.
13  Q.  Tell us about that.
14  A.  Basically came in the early part of the interview,
15      where we would start about -- talking about what BTK
16      wanted before he would admit that he was BTK.  That
17      basically he liked the media attention and that was
18      important to him and that sort of thing.  Just trying
19      to get Mr. Rader's feelings on what he thought BTK was
20      looking for.  And in the ongoing investigation, as we
21      were -- as we were starting to head towards the
22      interrogation phase of the interview.
23  Q.  And, you know, one of the things I found interesting,
24      a lot of times he talked in the third person.  Did you
25      find that in his interviews to be unusual?



1  A.  I have done several interviews, not recently, before
2      this one, but it's not unusual for a suspect to use a
3      third person.  So I wasn't amazed at it.  But he would
4      talk as -- even after named BTK, that he was BTK, that
5      he would talk as they were two separate people to him.
6  Q.  Now, from Mr. Rader's files there were also a number
7      of clippings that he had retained.  Did he explain why
8      he did that?
9  A.  Basically he, again, was archiving everything.  This
10      is what serial killers do.  He would archive.  He
11      wanted to keep what the official version of it was.
12      Plus, he would also have his copy of a photograph
13      possibly or the story that was written by him.  And he
14      wrote a story for almost every homicide that he did.
15      He had a story written probably within a month or two
16      of that homicide to be later -- so later he would
17      remember what went on.
18  Q.  Lieutenant Landwehr, in your course in your career as
19      a law enforcement officer, you have been schooled, I
20      know, many, many times and occasions through the FBI
21      academy, behavioral sciences unit, innumerable studies
22      in serial killing; is that correct?
23  A.  Yes, ma'am.
24  Q.  And you've studied some of the biggest serial killers
25      in the United States; is that correct?



1  A.  Yes, ma'am.
2  Q.  Is Dennis Rader's case basically a typical serial
3      killer case?
4  A.  No, ma'am.
5  Q.  What is the difference?
6  A.  Probably the basic difference is the length of time
7      that he has operated.  Also, the distance or time --
8      the temporal time -- the temporal difference between
9      his kills themselves.  When looking at this case is
10      that you would have two kills that occurred rather
11      quickly -- actually, five deaths that occurred rather
12      quickly but two separate acts and then a long break of
13      almost three years.  And then again another break that
14      we'll find out now -- that we thought ended possibly
15      completely then but then goes for another almost
16      eight years to nine years before he begins to kill
17      again.  And then you'll have four within a five-year
18      period and then he stops.  And then again resurfaces
19      again and starts writing the police department.  Which
20      always -- in this case, we would never identify a
21      serial killer until he started identifying himself.
22      Usually you will have a series where you can identify
23      it.  When we worked Grissom or those sort of things,
24      we could identify that we had a serial killer.  But in
25      this case, the Wichita Police Department would not be



1      able to identify that we had a serial killer until he
2      told us what he was doing.
3  Q.  All in all, when you did -- had the opportunity to
4      talk to Dennis Rader and to look through the materials
5      and the things that he had, wouldn't it be a fact that
6      after reviewing all of the other serial killer cases,
7      and I don't say this -- I say this just -- my word may
8      not be right, but isn't he just another serial killer?
9  A.  Yes.
10  Q.  In other words, there's nothing special about Dennis
11      Rader?
12  A.  Not in my opinion, no.
13       MS. FOULSTON:  I have no further questions.
14       THE COURT:  All right.  Any
15      cross-examination?
16       MR. OSBURN:  No, Your Honor.
17       THE COURT:  May this witness be excused?
18       MS. FOULSTON:  Yes.
19       THE COURT:  Thank you, sir.  You're excused.
20       THE WITNESS:  Thank you, Your Honor.
21       THE COURT:  The State may call their next
22      witness.
23       MS. FOULSTON:  The State rests, Your Honor.
24       THE COURT:  All right.  Does the
25      defendant --



1   (Off-the-record discussion.)
2       MS. FOULSTON:  Your Honor, we have victim
3      statements at this time.  It depends on when you want
4      to take those up.
5       THE COURT:  Not at this time.
6       Does the defendant desire to put on any
7      evidence?
8       MR. OSBURN:  We do not, Your Honor.
9       MS. FOULSTON:  All right.  Your Honor, we
10      have prepared for the Court all of the PowerPoints and
11      we would move for the admission of those PowerPoints.
12       THE COURT:  All right.  You've marked them
13      as Exhibit --
14       MS. FOULSTON:  They are there together.
15       THE COURT:  -- 1 through 8.
16       MS. FOULSTON:  There's the actual copies of
17      the PowerPoints.
18       THE COURT:  Have you showed those to the
19      defense?
20       MS. FOULSTON:  Yes.
21       MR. OSBURN:  Yes.
22       MS. FOULSTON:  Yeah, they have them.
23       THE COURT:  Is there any objection?
24       MR. OSBURN:  No, Your Honor.
25       THE COURT:  All right.  I will admit State's



1      Exhibits 1 through 8.
2       And that leaves, on your list of exhibits,
3      Exhibit 22 that has not been admitted.
4       MS. FOULSTON:  We decided not to introduce
5      22.
6       THE COURT:  Very well.  All right.  We will
7      go into recess until 1 o'clock.  At that time I will
8      entertain any statements of family members.
9   (Conclusion of Volume VI.)
10       *     *     *



1   C E R T I F I C A T E
3      STATE OF KANSAS   )
) ss:
6   I, Sandra J. Berger, a Certified Shorthand
Reporter, and the regularly appointed, qualified, and
7      acting Official Reporter of Division No. 23 of the
18th Judicial District of the State of Kansas, do
8      hereby certify that as such Official Reporter, I was
present at and reported in Stenotype shorthand the
9      above and foregoing proceedings in Case No. 2005 CR
498, THE STATE OF KANSAS, Plaintiff, v. Dennis L.
10      Rader, Defendant, heard on the 18th day of August,
2005, before the Honorable Gregory L. Waller, Judge of
11      Division No. 5 of said Court.
12   I further certify that at the request of Mr. Tim
Rogers, a transcript of my shorthand notes was typed
13      by me or under my supervision via computer-aided
transcription, and that the foregoing transcript,
14      consisting of 44 typewritten pages, is a true copy of
all of the proceedings, all to the best of my
15      knowledge and ability.
16   IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand
and official seal at Wichita, Kansas, this 18th day of
17	August, 2005.