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Forum Home > General Discussion > Republic to Empire: Has anyone tried it?

JAM
Member
Posts: 228

I have been trying to get off the ground with this ruleset (it is much more detailed than FoB, LFS or Lasalle),  but am having some difficulty. This is not a criticism of the ruleset, I just find it hard to follow the writing style. 


I have set up Clarence's starter scenario with 2 opposed single small bdes (2 infantry battalions each). I note that Clarence says to disregard the use of Maneuver Points (MP) to maintain orders in this small a scenario. The French gain the initiative in the first turn and throw a DAV4 (there is no bonus for a Bde Gen when he is the overall commander), so the French have 4 MP. They are in column of March with Move orders. So does it cost no MP to move the 2 battalions initially 16", and if this is the case can I use the remaining 4 MP, for a single unit action of 1 more 16"  move (1MP) and than use the 3 remaining MP to change formation (3MP). I presume this is what the writer means is exploitation. It is sort of neat as this brings my 1st French battalion over the bridge and allows me to form line just inches away from the Portuguese (have no Spanish) Infantry that is in line on the far side of the bridge. 


A few further questions, 1) when a battalion changes formation does it form up on the lead base? and 2) since the battalion is on Move orders how close can it come to the Portuguese battalion without changing orders. 3) Do the Portuguese initiate a charge reaction threat even though the French are on move orders, 4) I presume that the French can fire in this turn if close enough and finally 5) I presume battalions in column of march can snake as they move.


You can find the scenario here http://quindiastudios.blogspot.com/2010/01/starter-scenario-for-republic-to-empire.html


I apologise to those who will find this all gobbly-gook, but I know Clarence has an occasional look in.


John

--

Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

March 8, 2010 at 2:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JAM
Member
Posts: 228

Here is a photo of the position, I am not sure why it does not load directly, maybe Iannick can fix it or alternately you can look at the the last photo in my most recent post. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2wNi1BpxnTU/S5VR6q2MsAI/AAAAAAAABHQ/xFTE138j_GE/s1600-h/RtE.jpg. Colonel Tiff is playing the French.


--

Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

March 8, 2010 at 2:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Greystreak
Member
Posts: 128

John, if you're in a hurry for answers, you're possibly better off posting on Barry Hilton's Forum:  http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightingtalk/viewforum.php?f=17 . 

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Bryce Allen

March 8, 2010 at 6:37 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Quindia
Member
Posts: 103

Hi, John!


Let's see if I can help...


You are correct about not needing to spend MPs to maintain Brigade Orders in games that only feature a single brigade per side. I have found the games are too static with a single DAv when you have to use points every round - note that CHANGING Brigade Orders still costs MPs.


Your initial move of 16 inches is correct, and costs no MP since it is the initial order. All battalions in the brigade can move at no cost acting under the Brigade Order. However, the next bit you did is not correct.


Well, you are correct that you can issue a Single Unit Action at 1 MP to move the lead battalion a further 16 inches, but it will then be on it's own and one of your battalions will likely be out of command distance of the brigadier (and require double MP for any Single Unit Actions on the next turn). If you want to move the second battalion with a SIngle Unit Action, that will also cost 1MP so you would be down to only 2MP left and couldn't change formation. Even if you decide the let slip the dogs of war and leave the trailing battalion in the dust, issuing multiple Single Unit Actions to the same unit, while possible, is increasingly more expensive. A second Single Unit Action costs double the amount of MP's (page 44, middle column, 1st paragraph, last sentence) so changing formation from a Column of March to Line would cost 6MPs!


EXPLOITATION is different. This concept allows you to issue multiple Brigade Orders. Going along your initial tactic, the first MOVE order is free, again because it is the existing order. You can issue a second MOVE order to the whole brigade using Exploitation. You need to pay 2MPs for the second MOVE order (just as if you issued a new order - can't give you unlimited free actions) for a Seasoned brigade PLUS 1 additional MP for the second order (page 50, 1st column, 1st sentence). You are only left with 1MP.


One suggestion - on a small table, unless the scenario calls for Columns of March (say in an ambush), deploy your battalions in Columns of Companies - they are only marginally slower and only require a base 1MP for Drilled troops to change formation. This assumes your brigade knows it's heading into action. It would also be more historically accurate as troops didn't march up to point blank range in Columns of March!


The other questions:

1.Yes, units that change formation form on the lead base (normally the command stand in my units).

2. No unit can voluntarily move closer than three inches to an enemy unit without charging (normally requiring ATTACK brigade orders).

3. The Portuguese do not need to make a Charge Threat Reaction Test if the French battalion is in Column of March. If you were in Column of Companies, you would temporarily halt your advancing unit at charge range and the defender would make the test. After the test, you finish your movement.

4. Shooting requires no MPs, though if you move during the same turn, remember to apply the penalty for shooting and moving! If you could somehow cross the bridge and change formation, you could absolutely shoot.

5. Yes, battalions in Column of March need only measure distance for the lead stand and the others follow as necessary.


As another note, I think you will find two battalions attacking far too weak to take the bridge. In my experience, the first battalion is annihilated in the face of fire from 2 steady battalions and a half battery! What happens is the lead battalion takes a pile of casualties and ends up WAVERING and unable to advance... normally on or blocking the bridge. The next turn may see it rally, but unable to do anything else... then it gets shot up again... and again! The tactic that gives you a chance with four attacking battalions - shove the first battalion forward to die just as I mentioned. Deploy the second and third battalion into line on either side of the bridge and start laying fire into one of the defending battalions or the artillery. The fourth battalion hovers behind the first in Column of Companies to rush across after the first battalion melts away (leave enough room for it to rout without bursting through your other units), As soon as the first battalion is gone (and hopefully one of the enemy units WAVERING or ROUTED) attach the brigadier to the fourth battalion and rush across the bridge. If you can gain a foothold, the other units can probabaly get across on susequent rounds. This doesn't always work and will depend on your dice, but I've run the scenario five or six times and gotten a fifty/fifty victory split so I feel the scenario is pretty balanced.


Hope this helps, John, and feel free to ask questions here anytime (as long as Iannick doesn't mind). I ususally chesk in here every day even if it's just to lurk. I am also always on the LoA forum or available at clarence@quindia.com anytime. I will always try to help if I can. The rules are more detailed that some of the others, but only really in the Order/MP section and after you've gotten the hang of it the game really moves quite fast.

--

Clarence Harrison

http://www.quindia.com

http://www.quindiastudios.blogspot.com

March 8, 2010 at 7:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Iannick Martin
Site Owner
Posts: 785

Hmmm...for some reason my powers of divine intervention fail me; I think the name of the pic has code that conflicts with my interface.


Tiff is winning, isn't he? :tongue:


p.s. Clarence; of course it's no problem! You can talk as much about RtE as you want around here! As soon as I try it I'll chip in.

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Vorwärts, für den Kaiser!

March 8, 2010 at 7:21 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Quindia
Member
Posts: 103

Regarding question #2, the rule is on page 57, Minimum Separation Distance... :)

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Clarence Harrison

http://www.quindia.com

http://www.quindiastudios.blogspot.com

March 8, 2010 at 11:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JAM
Member
Posts: 228

Thanks very much Clarence, I will go through your response when I get up tomorrow,


Many thanks,


John

--

Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

March 9, 2010 at 1:44 AM Flag Quote & Reply

JAM
Member
Posts: 228

By the way Iannick, Tiff is a girl!!

--

Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

March 9, 2010 at 1:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

von Peter himself
Member
Posts: 149

Thanks John & Clarence. I can learn along with John so I'd be much obliged if the queries and answers were kept in the public domain. :cool:


Salute

von Peter himself ... selfish git  :D

--

http://web.mac.com/nataliendpeter

March 9, 2010 at 3:37 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Iannick Martin
Site Owner
Posts: 785

By the way Iannick, Tiff is a girl!!

 

Even more humiliating if you lose... :wink:

--

Vorwärts, für den Kaiser!

March 9, 2010 at 9:14 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Gunfreak
Member
Posts: 275

I know the rules are made for 28mm, but I have heard they work with other rules to.

 

I'm having problems finding basic info about the rules, are there any reveiws or stuff like that?

March 9, 2010 at 12:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

JAM
Member
Posts: 228

Thanks again Clarence, you really clarified a lot of things. I have had a look at your responses and was able, I hope successfully, to run the French phase of turn 1 without incident. 


I made a mistake in the initial OB, and had only 2 French battalions, there are now 4; slightly different in number of figures recommended due to my basing idiosyncracies. I changed their starting formation as recommended.


Please have a look, I believe I have utilised the MP appropriately this time. The firing phase appeared straight forward, but I am not 100% clear on how artillery take casualty. I am also not sure if the the cacadores are appropriately placed in a column of companies. They are 2 figures to a base, so I placed 2 bases abreast (column of companies being 3-4 figures wide). This unfortunately is quite different with a 80mm frontage vs 40 mm for all the rest of the units in this scenario as they are based 3 figures to a 40mm wide base.


Anyway, I have to run to work now. You can see my progress with photos on my blog at http://fuentesdeonoro.blogspot.com/2010/03/battle-of-puente-de-piedra-rte-starter.html


I will update and post here with each move.


John


ps Gunfreak there is a review in the the Jan/Feb  2010 Battlegames magazine.



--

Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

March 9, 2010 at 4:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Quindia
Member
Posts: 103

No, problem, John!


One thing from your blog:

The rest of the French phase now takes place, there are no charge reactions as the 1/26e are more than 3" away from the Portuguese FA


Charge Reactions are taken when an enemy unit moves into charge range. However, in your example, the artillery can't be threatened becasue there is impassable terrain between them, so no Chearge Reaction would be required. The 3" distance is the minimum distance enemy units can be positioned WITHOUT chrage orders.


Just as a tactical note, your artillery would be just as effective another two feet from the river! No sense letting the French march up that close to them (however, the French may be in for a nasty surprise if they are standing conviently within 9 inches). The second draw back for the Portuguese is that the batteries are now masked by the single French battalion which is likely to stand for a round or two even if cut to shreds! They will be of no help to the Portuguese infantry stopping the battalions pushing across the bridge. Still, I look forward with interest to see how this works out!


As far as I can tell, you did the artilley casualties correctly, but they can still fire as long as there are two crew per gun. The MPs also seem to have been spent correctly. I promise that once you have the hang of the order system, the game is a breeze (well, ok charging can cause some headaches, but that is always the most complicated part of any game).

 


--

Clarence Harrison

http://www.quindia.com

http://www.quindiastudios.blogspot.com

March 9, 2010 at 6:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Quindia
Member
Posts: 103

Gunfreak, besides the review John mentioned in Battlegames, there is a review in the Feb 2010 issue of Wargames Illustrated and a scenario in the March 2010 issue. You can see sample pages from the book on my site here.


As far as 15mm goes, I have not played at that scale, but here is the quote from the book:


For those who prefer to game in 20mm, 15mm, 12mm or 10mm scales I recommend you simply convert all inch distances for movement and firing to centimetres. This is not a decision based on matematics but neither is it poorly thought through. There is no reason for the mechanisms not to transfer well to these smaller scales and there is an argument that they will be most accurate for 10mm-15mm scales.

     In terms of base sizes (which the rules specify in millimetres) simply divide these by two or use the closest approximation which fits the model types you are using. If your collections are already based there is no need to re-base because all shooting and close combat mechanisms can be applied as they currently exist. The logic will be clear when you read the relevant sections later in the rules.


I will be happy to answer any specific questions questions you might have.

--

Clarence Harrison

http://www.quindia.com

http://www.quindiastudios.blogspot.com

March 9, 2010 at 6:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Quindia
Member
Posts: 103

Gunfreak, I was paging through my March 2010 Wargames Illustrated and found another review of Republic to Empire... back to back issues from different reviewers... never seen that before, but both reviews were good so I'm happy!

--

Clarence Harrison

http://www.quindia.com

http://www.quindiastudios.blogspot.com

March 9, 2010 at 8:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Quindia
Member
Posts: 103

Disregard my last post... no review in that mag, there is a review in Wargames, Soldiers, & Strategy... spacing out again...

--

Clarence Harrison

http://www.quindia.com

http://www.quindiastudios.blogspot.com

March 9, 2010 at 9:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

MaxShadow
Member
Posts: 85

I'm really enjoying the photographic walk through of the rules. (BTW I'm barracking for Tiff.)

March 10, 2010 at 1:59 AM Flag Quote & Reply

JAM
Member
Posts: 228

Thanks again Clarence, I have posted the Portuguese phase of Turn 1. I am really unsure if I have maneuvered the 3rd Caçadores correctly. I am unsure about the interpenetration, change face on DEFEND orders, I am not sure if REFORM would have been more correct. I also believe that the 3rd can fire at 1/26e, but I am holding off on this until I see if the rest of the move was correct. Also I presume that the commander is in command range if any part of the units under his command are within 9"?


I know this is slow going, but I want to get the simple parts right before I get into CHARGE, resolve and all those other complexities.


I am little worried about the tactical situation because I am trying to learn the game and I am reckless anyway!!


John

--

Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

March 10, 2010 at 12:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

rcherk
Member
Posts: 163

John,

If you don't mind a bit of kibitzing, I would opt to fire your arty a second time. If the French gain the initiative on turn 2 there is the very real chance that they will render your arty useless, all they have to do is kill off four more artillerists. If they waver following their resolve check they'll still have 4 dice of musketry, if they don't they'll have 9. A second arty fire gives you a full 12 dice with a modicum of luck you can push 1/26 down a pip on their resolve check.  The situation you're in now is almost exactly the same as mine when I first tried this scenario, I noted as a possible house rule that arty should not be permitted more dice in a second shot  than they got from their first fire.

 

Your guns don't bear on the bridge and they're in effective musket range of any enemies placed opposite them on the other side of the river. With DEFEND orders you can place any of your brigade elements within 9 inches of the object being defended. In this scenario, you can place one unit to block the bridge and set the other two up to support it using Brigade Fire Support (P89). You may not use it but then again you might.

 

Clarence: One thing that wasn't clear to me was how to charge across a bridge. I thought that you had to be in an attack column or line to charge. But I also thought that in order to charge across restricted space then you would have to employ the charging whilst reducing frontage rule (P87). An RtE French attack column is three companies wide which would seem to preclude it from charging over the bridge. Ultimately, I decided to allow a 2-company wide attack column and applied the disorder incurred from the reduced frontage rule.

--

Randy

Naprzód psiekrwie, Cesarz patrzy!

March 10, 2010 at 5:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

rcherk
Member
Posts: 163

Oops, sorry, the French would only get 2 or 4 dice dependent on whether or not they WAVER.  I'll still hit'm again, though.

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Randy

Naprzód psiekrwie, Cesarz patrzy!

March 10, 2010 at 6:32 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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