Working with Meshes – Part One – Rough Sketches for Compositing/Planning
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Weekend_Vox : davidflame
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14.38.01 lewis: hello
davidflame: hiya Lewis
davidflame: welcome through
14.38.34 lewis: ty
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davidflame: You won't need to draw anything today ;)
14.39.07 lewis: ok
14.39.08 lewis: =)
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davidflame: I've prepared some crude drawings earlier
14.39.41 lewis: hi Tim
davidflame: Very Blue Peter
14.39.48 lewis: lol
14.39.49 lewis: ok
davidflame: heya Tim
14.39.53 AceHarddrive: gotcha!
14.40.29 lewis: just need to log off / log on windows before we start
14.40.30 lewis: brb
davidflame: K
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davidflame: wb Lewis
14.42.19 lewis: thats better
14.42.20 lewis: ty
davidflame: You ready to get started Tim?
14.42.40 lewis: been having some explorer problems
davidflame: :(
14.42.48 AceHarddrive: anytime
davidflame: Cool
davidflame: and you lewis?
14.43.06 lewis: yep rady
14.43.10 lewis: ready*
davidflame: K
14.43.15 AceHarddrive: Try Mozilla Firefox
14.43.26 lewis: i mean explorer
davidflame: Windows
14.43.35 lewis: not Internet explorer
14.43.41 lewis: keeps crashing
14.43.43 AceHarddrive: ok
14.43.44 lewis: doenst do a lot
davidflame: :(
14.43.52 lewis: just messes up task bar
14.44.05 lewis: it happened since i put modzilla on
14.44.09 lewis: anyways
davidflame: haha!
14.44.26 lewis: whenever your ready David
davidflame: K you both worked with meshes in MJW
14.44.44 lewis: yes
14.44.50 AceHarddrive: yup
davidflame: OK
14.44.55 lewis: mostly just importing not making adjustments in mjw
davidflame: Right
davidflame: I've been doing a lot of work exploring and using meshes
davidflame: I got contacted about doing some work for an RPG company so I've been looking at castles in particular
14.46.31 AceHarddrive: cool
davidflame: ;)
14.46.45 lewis: cool
davidflame: After working with lots of meshes in development of mjw 3.0
davidflame: I learned through experience
davidflame: Scenes can get quite complex
14.47.24 AceHarddrive: best way
davidflame: So I began to plan what I was going to put into an mjw scene
14.48.03 lewis: ok
davidflame: and I did this by drawing small thumbnails
davidflame: so I could decide on a basic layout
14.48.33 AceHarddrive: ok
davidflame: Now I've begun drawing pics of scenes before I've even got a landscape setup
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: The great thing is these pics don't have to be masterpieces
davidflame: their just to get a general idea of what you are going to do
14.50.31 AceHarddrive: right
davidflame: I checked out concept design websites
davidflame: and this is the way most professional cg artists go about doing things
davidflame: they do small thumbnails of basic images - take about a min/2 mins a pic and just draw out ideas
davidflame: http://www.avidflame.f2s.com/Sketches/Image001.jpg
davidflame: heres one I did
davidflame: Very rough
14.53.39 AceHarddrive: yeah, that's rough!
davidflame: but rather than loading a meshes into mjw and trying to organise them into something reasonable - you can generate layouts for them before they go in
davidflame: Yes ...quick simple sketches
davidflame: Get the ideas out
davidflame: and have a simple visual aid to organise your meshes with
davidflame: took about 20 mins to do that page ...hehe
davidflame: Because I was new to using the drawing tool <grin>
14.55.36 lewis: =)
davidflame: Usually I've used a pencil and paper
davidflame: but this I drew with software tool
davidflame: http://www.ambientdesign.com/artrage.html
davidflame: Its a free drawing tool
davidflame: for use with a graphics tablet
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14.57.12 dreamer: hello guys
14.57.14 lewis: hi dreamer
davidflame: Hi dreamer ...great timing
14.57.24 dreamer: you have not started yet?
davidflame: Just introducing people to software you pointed me to
14.57.34 lewis: cool
14.57.38 AceHarddrive: Just background material
14.57.42 dreamer: cool
davidflame: http://www.ambientdesign.com/artrage.html
14.57.54 dreamer: oh :)
14.58.03 dreamer: i know plenty other ones too :p
14.58.12 AceHarddrive: Seems sorta like Corel Painter
davidflame: http://www.freewebs.com/weekendvox/projects/Sketches/Image001.jpg
14.58.29 dreamer: the guy who made painter did it
davidflame: Just covered using quick thumbnail sketches for working with meshes
davidflame: On that page ...Castle through trees ...I've started producing in Mojoworld
14.59.42 dreamer: bouhou :( ... i still did not receive mojo3
15.00.10 dreamer: we wont need any meshes from it today?
davidflame: No covering setup stuff
15.00.30 dreamer: ok
davidflame: I know I used to jump in and just load meshes
15.00.48 dreamer: is there any casttle in the cd?
davidflame: now I prepare things first
davidflame: No but I'll be giving a link to a site where you can download them from ...as part of this series
davidflame: ;)
15.01.39 dreamer: cool, i like casttle :)
15.02.00 dreamer: i have the feeling i am not spelling it right tho
davidflame: one t not two
davidflame: ;)
15.02.22 dreamer: :)
davidflame: The second pic on that page is meant to be ...lol
15.02.57 lewis: rodluc
davidflame: an idea for doing floating islands
davidflame: yep Lewis ;)
15.03.15 dreamer: rodluc?
15.03.17 lewis: very cool meshes
davidflame: So having done the pic
davidflame: I know I need four boulders
15.04.00 dreamer: what is a rodluc?
davidflame: which I will have to shape
davidflame: its Lewis giving away the castle website <grin.
15.04.36 lewis: ooops
15.04.38 dreamer: oh :)
davidflame: np
15.05.16 lewis: cool idea of using boulders
davidflame: :)
davidflame: I also drew two quick ladders and a bridge connecting them up
davidflame: and a tree on two of them and a castle on the largest
davidflame: so I know what I need to setup
15.06.23 lewis: ok
15.06.30 AceHarddrive: right
davidflame: I can import a tree mesh ...or use mojotrees
15.06.50 dreamer: do i have to dl something from rodluc now?
davidflame: No just sit back and relax
15.07.12 dreamer: ok :)
davidflame: while jabber on
davidflame: lol
15.07.45 lewis: =)
15.08.12 dreamer: not sure about what jabber is :)
davidflame: By using sketches I can work out what I'm going to need in terms of meshes/boulders etc before I start using MJW
davidflame: For the bottom one the sideways landscape image
15.09.18 AceHarddrive: jabber=talking endlessly
15.09.24 lewis: lol
15.09.33 dreamer: :)
15.09.43 dreamer: wow, rodluc is really cool
davidflame: I worked out a way to hide the bottoms of castle towers as if mimicing grass growing as mounds
davidflame: using smooth round boulders with a grass material
15.10.41 lewis: cool
davidflame: so I could then go into mjw and make it happen
davidflame: Using sketches you can work out a lot of the basics before you open MJW
davidflame: Heres another picture I did where I expanded on one of the previous drawings and started to do some planning out in rough
davidflame: http://www.freewebs.com/weekendvox/projects/Sketches/Image002.jpg
15.13.23 lewis: cool
davidflame: Before you load a mesh into MJW heres somethings to consider
davidflame: I started with the castle and decided to play with a spotlight
davidflame: I drew some rough shadowing
davidflame: ....very rough ......lol
15.15.05 lewis: =)
davidflame: Then I started writing out what I would need to consider to produce a finished render similar to the image I'd drawn in rough
15.15.39 dreamer: ji thought it was smoke, castle burning :)
davidflame: lol
davidflame: When you start working with meshes shadows become much more important
15.16.29 dreamer: indeed
davidflame: :)
15.17.01 dreamer: by the way, is there a way to bypass shadows in normal render when using meshes?
15.17.18 dreamer: normal quality i mean
davidflame: Use custom settings
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davidflame: setup custome renders settings for yourself
15.17.47 dreamer: ok
davidflame: like you did in Slav's Materials session
15.18.10 dreamer: i know how to do that :p
davidflame: ;)
15.18.41 dreamer: but i was intrigued, cause nomarl setting doesnt use shadows usually
davidflame: Not noticed ...I use custom settings all the time
davidflame: Never use normal
15.19.33 dreamer: i use custom at final rendering time usually
davidflame: Can you read my writing in that second picture ok?
15.20.23 lewis: yes
15.20.33 dreamer: yes
15.20.47 lewis: =)
15.20.56 AceHarddrive: np
davidflame: When working with meshes - bump up the sun intensity
davidflame: This is is a way to get better results
15.21.36 dreamer: (if we have a castle to dl later, just remember i have a small connection, so warn me before) :p
davidflame: I'll give people a weeks warning for downloading ....so relax
15.22.11 dreamer: oh
davidflame: that should be enough time <grin>
15.22.37 dreamer: hopefully
davidflame: If you are going to use a spotlight you may need to leave the sunlight at the default intensity
davidflame: Using spotlights - you can apply a gel in mjw 3 and colour the mesh
davidflame: So if your sunlight is setup for a particular terrain to make the terrain look good you may be able to get the mesh looking good with a spotlight with a different colour applied
15.24.54 lewis: right
davidflame: Whats good lighting for a terrain - may not be good for meshes
15.26.23 AceHarddrive: yup
davidflame: With doing a preliminary sketch ...you may not be able to work out the exact settings but you can figure out some of the things you need to consider
davidflame: Which will speed things up when you actually get round to launching mjw
davidflame: Ambience is a biggy for getting decent results from meshes
15.28.34 lewis: ah
15.28.55 dreamer: do you use the widget or a texture for ambience usually?
davidflame: The default blue setting ...sucks big time for working with meshes
davidflame: I generally darken the ambient with a widget
15.29.28 lewis: black?
davidflame: But I also have some textures preset up too
davidflame: Depends on the terrain Lewis
15.29.43 dreamer: like slope ... ?
15.29.52 lewis: ok
davidflame: Some terrains don't take black so well
davidflame: Yeah I've got a normella texture which goes from a medium to a dark blacky blue
davidflame: that I use sometimes
davidflame: If you were to load a mesh on Copperwine
davidflame: ....hehe!
davidflame: Then you'd have to work with the ambient
15.31.28 lewis: yeh
15.31.29 lewis: true
davidflame: ;)
15.32.29 AceHarddrive: right
davidflame: I have an habit of automatically adjusting the ambient on all worlds to a darker setting
davidflame: lol
15.33.02 dreamer: me too :)
davidflame: to make sure the shadows work better
davidflame: Has that been useful so far?
15.34.20 dreamer: talking to me?
davidflame: and everyone else <grin>
15.34.44 dreamer: i wasn't sure :p
15.35.19 dreamer: for the moment, i am on know terrain :)
davidflame: kewl
davidflame: Going to show you some things I did with sketching when I looked at reworking an existing render
15.36.03 dreamer: does known terrain work in english?
15.36.05 lewis: yep, from my point of view I have already started playing with those castles but got stuck on layout because the planet I am using is not very flat so the idea of using boulders and trees is cool, plu i didnt think about lighting
15.36.25 lewis: plu = plus
davidflame: Yes boulders are great for castles
15.36.47 lewis: so maybe working on paper to prepare for such terrain is a much better start =)
15.36.53 dreamer: specially with a catapult :)
15.37.00 lewis: hehe
davidflame: I've already done the castle through trees as a setup render in mjw
davidflame: For trees I also used photobillboards
15.37.32 lewis: =_
15.37.33 lewis: )
davidflame: something else to add to the possibilities in mjw now ;)
15.37.52 dreamer: is there plenty of it on mojo cd?
davidflame: for mjw 2
davidflame: you can add trees as a layer in photoshop when postworking
davidflame: having done a sketch you can have an idea where its going to be when you setup a render
davidflame: and leave space for its inclusion
davidflame: :)
15.39.39 lewis: LOL i dont know photoshop that well still
15.39.43 lewis: =)
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: I thinks so
davidflame: I did a load of billboards - and I'll do a session on preparing billboards for use in MJW later
davidflame: But for now I'm going to have a cuppa
davidflame: I'll continue in 10-15 mins
15.41.37 dreamer: cuppa=coffe?
15.41.44 dreamer: coffee
davidflame: the
15.42.04 lewis: ok
15.42.07 lewis: =)
davidflame: tea ;)
15.42.17 lewis: i jsut had one
15.42.18 lewis: ;D
15.42.20 dreamer: ok :)
15.42.23 lewis: ill get some biscuits
15.43.14 dreamer: a cup of milk and a potatoe for me please
15.43.42 lewis: =)
davidflame: ;)
15.43.46 lewis: lol
15.44.32 dreamer: you gotta love this mojo3 inbuilt macdrive
davidflame: whats that?
15.46.03 dreamer: you dont know what a macdrive is?
davidflame: nope
davidflame: humour me
davidflame: lol
15.47.21 dreamer: its when you go to fast food , and you order from your car outside, talking in the little metal box
davidflame: isn't that a BIG macdrive
15.48.28 dreamer: it can be a small one too :)
15.48.48 dreamer: depends of the size of the town i guess :p
davidflame: :)
15.49.07 dreamer: you call it big macdrive in your country?
davidflame: No ...big mac is the name of one of the macdonald servings
15.52.23 dreamer: did you get the big and tasty in england?
davidflame: Don't think so .... but I'm not a fast food eater
15.53.05 lewis: i am not sure either
davidflame: Big Mac is just one that people talk about a lot in the UK
15.53.26 dreamer: i am not much either, but the big and tasty is the best one they made ever
davidflame: when they mention Macdonalds
davidflame: ...not in general conversation ...hehe!
15.54.28 dreamer: yes, but can we trust UK people taste about food? :p
15.54.43 lewis: ?
15.54.43 dreamer: just kidding
15.54.45 lewis: lol
davidflame: ouch
15.54.56 AceHarddrive: I gotta go. Been up all nite! See you guys later! Y'all have a good one!
15.55.01 dreamer: have you ever been to uk lewis?
15.55.06 lewis: bye Tim
davidflame: k see ya tim
15.55.09 dreamer: bye tim
15.55.10 lewis: I live there
15.55.14 dreamer: oh
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davidflame: lol
15.55.23 dreamer: you like what you eat?
15.55.48 lewis: i like a range of foods so yes (as long as I am not the cook)
davidflame: pasta, curries, houmous, .....
15.56.02 dreamer: houmous?
davidflame: chickpeas
15.56.27 lewis: i am a pasta freek
15.56.30 lewis: =)
davidflame: finally ground and made into a dip
davidflame: :)
15.56.52 lewis: must be something to do with being born in italy
15.56.58 dreamer: please, reassure me, chickpeas doesnt mean small breasts, is it?
15.57.14 lewis: lol
davidflame: no and I have no idea how you thought it was that either ...lol
15.57.44 dreamer: you know what a chick is?
15.58.00 lewis: yep
davidflame: baby hen
15.58.09 lewis: LOL
15.58.15 dreamer: hen?
15.58.16 lewis: and the other one David
davidflame: girlie
15.58.36 lewis: =)
davidflame: chicken - female = hen
15.58.54 dreamer: oh ok
davidflame: poule
davidflame: k before I go off into really bad french
davidflame: back to the session
davidflame: Using sketches for reworking an existing render
davidflame: http://www.avidflame.f2s.com/Mojoteam/cactinrocksblurredbackfull.jpg
davidflame: I did that pic at a larger size with more content above the cacti
davidflame: I cut the top off because it was all very similar looking
16.02.43 lewis: ok
davidflame: So I decided to explore adding additional terrains
davidflame: http://www.freewebs.com/weekendvox/projects/Sketches/Image003.jpg
davidflame: a quick rough drawing
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davidflame: Hiya dmytry
16.04.01 dreamer: hey dmytry
16.04.03 lewis: hi again dmytry
16.04.15 dmytry: Hi everyone
davidflame: Just showing off my outstanding drawing skills ...hehe!
16.04.35 dreamer: which are quite impressive :p
davidflame: ...talking about using quick sketches for working with meshes in mjw
16.05.19 dmytry: aha......
16.05.24 dreamer: i know, i go to the corner, with my hands on my head
davidflame: Its faster to sketch than it is to adjust the settings and render
davidflame: so for preliminary work its quicker and easier to consider using sketches
16.06.40 dmytry: probably i don't understand what you mean by sketch
davidflame: http://www.avidflame.f2s.com/Mojoteam/cactinrocksblurredbackfull.jpg
davidflame: thats one of my renders
davidflame: I decided to explore changing the background
davidflame: This is my quick sketch of what it could look like http://www.freewebs.com/weekendvox/projects/Sketches/Image003.jpg
davidflame: very rough and simplified
davidflame: but faster than adjusting the settings in mjw and rendering a new view
davidflame: Then I did another one http://www.freewebs.com/weekendvox/projects/Sketches/Image004.jpg
davidflame: this time considering using MJW boulders piled up
davidflame: because I'm sketching them I can visualise different results very quickly
davidflame: in rough
davidflame: before I start to work in mjw on producing a render
16.12.27 lewis: ok
davidflame: The pics are a fast way of exploring options
davidflame: Heres another - considering using voronoi mats and exploring what needs to be considered
davidflame: http://www.freewebs.com/weekendvox/projects/Sketches/Image005.jpg
davidflame: Using voronoi - do I spread it top to bottom of the cliff face?
davidflame: do I add boulders to it?
davidflame: Because the existing lighting was very much directly overhead - to produce the shadows for the cactii
davidflame: if I did a straight cliff wall it would be hidden in shadow
davidflame: so I need to produce a slope
davidflame: drawing out rough sketches help speed up the actual creation in mjw for me
16.18.43 lewis: ok
davidflame: Most people are not used to working with more than 2 or three meshes in Mojoworld renders
16.19.54 lewis: right
davidflame: A lot of them struggle to come up with ideas because they try to work within mojoworld
davidflame: Slav suggested in the Materials session ...that before producing mats its good to have an idea what you want to produce
davidflame: This is a way of achieving that
16.21.57 lewis: definately
davidflame: Its also a way of enabling MJW world users to get into working patterns that CG artists already use for working with other apps
davidflame: Producing Concept Art/Drawing thumbnails etc
davidflame: Sketches do not need to be in French, Russian or English
16.23.43 lewis: ok
davidflame: So sketches can be a good way of sharing ideas
davidflame: between mojoworld users
davidflame: does anyone already use sketching before developing something in mjw?
16.27.11 lewis: no
16.27.13 lewis: =(
davidflame: Go look at CGchannel.com sometime
davidflame: check out their contest section. Look at the way they approach things.
16.28.14 lewis: have you used them from the start David or just when you were helpng develope v3
16.28.20 lewis: ok
davidflame: since working with v3
16.28.29 lewis: ok
16.29.15 dreamer: i never use sketches
davidflame: I've got a lot of outer space sketches - moons, starfields and planets
davidflame: that I've not turned into renders yet
16.29.59 lewis: cool
davidflame: By doing sketches I went beyond what I could already do within mjw
davidflame: and started to explore new possibilities
davidflame: which I then find ways to make real in mjw
davidflame: If you develop from within mjw you can sometimes be limited by the existing potential of what is already doable for you!
davidflame: Sketching allows you to step outside of that. To explore new dimensions of potential ;)
16.32.11 lewis: cool
davidflame: so its a useful way of setting in motion new developments
davidflame: For the starfields sketches
davidflame: I've rendered some mjw starfields
davidflame: and begun postworking them in Photoshop
davidflame: using ideas from Greg Martin
davidflame: from tutorials
16.35.13 lewis: ah, a great site =)
davidflame: Yeah hopefully I can gradually learn how to produce the effects from within MJW
16.35.51 lewis: =)
davidflame: since basically what he does in Photoshop should be reproduceable procedurally
16.36.25 dreamer: a link of his website?
davidflame: http://gallery.artofgregmartin.com/
16.37.30 dreamer: ty
davidflame: np
davidflame: Last week with Woz's development of the rocket mounds
davidflame: If he had sketched it first
davidflame: He would not have been has likely to bang his head and have the problems he had
davidflame: because he could've thought through the actions before launching mjw
davidflame: ;)
16.41.50 lewis: lol
16.41.57 lewis: i missed that
16.41.59 lewis: last weekend?
davidflame: Yes
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: He ended up getting annoyed with mojotrees
davidflame: lol
davidflame: but a lot of the obstacles could've been resolved 'in rough' by sketching
16.43.53 dreamer: i am away for 10mns
davidflame: K
davidflame: using rough sketches removes the pressure to get it right
davidflame: which people sometimes put on themselves
davidflame: By sketching you can quickly rough out ideas and then refine your actual approach to producing it in MJW
davidflame: before you even launch the program
davidflame: ;)
16.46.40 lewis: hehe
16.47.33 lewis: i have yet to get that stressed over mojo
davidflame: Yeah ...keep it fun ...thats the idea
16.48.01 lewis: yep
davidflame: make it more and more fun <grin>
davidflame: If you get into sketching
davidflame: the basics of drawing make modelling with convention 3d apps easier
davidflame: building things up from basic cubes, spheres and cylinders
davidflame: is equally applicable to both drawing and 3d modelling
16.51.04 lewis: yey
16.51.10 lewis: yeh*
davidflame: http://www.polykarbon.com/tutorials/basics/basics.html
davidflame: ;)
16.53.26 lewis: cool
davidflame: Useful?
16.55.34 lewis: yep
davidflame: Since some people who import meshes into mjw at some point may decide to explore creating their own meshes
16.55.43 lewis: thanks
16.55.51 lewis: i am one of those
davidflame: and drawing is a good skill to develop
16.56.02 lewis: i need to create a long long long stone bridge
16.56.10 lewis: cant find one online
davidflame: aha
16.56.35 lewis: i tired using primitives but it would have need many many components
16.56.40 lewis: tried*
davidflame: lol
16.57.45 lewis: ashgondai said he would produce something, see what i thought, but taht was ages ago and had not mentioned it LOL
davidflame: Yes I would expect most people who get into adding content to Mojoworld find that getting free content from the net at some point becomes too limited and begin either to seek paid for meshes or to produce their own
davidflame: Not seen Ash for a while
16.58.46 lewis: yes
16.59.24 lewis: there are load of bridges, but i would seriously need so stretch it for the scale/lenth i am using and it would look naff
davidflame: use it twice?
17.00.39 dreamer: back
17.00.41 lewis: mmm, maybe
davidflame: wb
17.00.47 dreamer: ty
17.00.52 lewis: probably need to use it 20 times
17.01.00 lewis: its gona be that log
davidflame: yikes
17.01.02 lewis: long*
17.01.13 dreamer: why dont you try to build one yourself lewis?
17.01.43 lewis: i was just saying to David I would probalbly have to, but i dont have any software or experience in building
17.01.48 lewis: or time at the moment
17.02.08 dreamer: software experience comes with practice :)
17.02.18 lewis: of course
17.02.27 lewis: but practise takes time ;D
17.02.31 dreamer: you know wings3d?
17.02.43 lewis: heard of it but that is
17.02.48 lewis: it
17.03.09 dreamer: its free and powerful, and it would be easy to make a bridge with it
davidflame: Yes I'd suggest wings 3d too as a starting point
17.03.24 lewis: downloadable?
17.03.27 dreamer: yes
davidflame: reasonably easy to get to grips with
17.03.39 lewis: cool
17.03.41 lewis: address?
davidflame: via rosity wings 3d forum
davidflame: lol
17.04.05 dreamer: http://www.wings3d.com
17.04.08 dreamer: :p
davidflame: even better
davidflame: the more direct route
17.05.03 dreamer: still playing with softimage david?
17.05.06 lewis: thanks
davidflame: XSI
davidflame: yes
17.05.32 dreamer: having fun with it?
davidflame: taking it slowly though
davidflame: yes
17.05.53 dreamer: it is not the easiest to grasp
davidflame: need to break it into sections thats for sure
17.06.15 lewis: lol...latest stable release...latest developement release =o
davidflame: complex app
17.06.24 dreamer: indeed
davidflame: thats for sure
17.06.31 dreamer: wings works great lewis
17.06.33 lewis: stable it is
davidflame: go for stable
davidflame: wings is cool
17.06.57 lewis: +)
davidflame: and theres some neat tutorials at rosity
17.07.08 lewis: ok wil check them out
17.07.19 dreamer: and a hughe users communauty
davidflame: though I think they might be in the bryce section
davidflame: lol
davidflame: has it got nurbs?
17.07.55 lewis: downloaded
17.08.04 dreamer: no
davidflame: long time since I used it
17.08.11 dreamer: wings is polygonal modeler
davidflame: thought not
davidflame: polygonal
davidflame: face, edge and points....
17.09.03 dreamer: and subdivisions :)
davidflame: neat
davidflame: using Bryce and Mojo this last week - when not in the depths of a cold
davidflame: also tinkering with Daz Studio
davidflame: :)
17.11.09 dreamer: does daz studio works good?
17.11.17 dreamer: ihave tried it very quickly
davidflame: yes works ok
davidflame: I loaded a previous beta version that wasn't so good
17.11.44 dreamer: i am not much a poser guy :)
davidflame: but the latest is fine
davidflame: yeah wanted some figures quickly
davidflame: for a commercial project
17.12.41 dreamer: it does the trick
davidflame: so grabbed some freebie meshes and worked with them in Dstudio
davidflame: was OK
davidflame: poser meshes
17.13.23 dreamer: i had a link of really cool free poser characters
17.13.35 dreamer: give me a mn, i will try to find it
davidflame: k
davidflame: posergamer?
davidflame: Jon Malis?
17.15.55 dreamer: i dont remember the name
17.16.03 dreamer: still looking
davidflame: the site I mentioned had lots of historical figures ...plus starwars characters and games characters ...very cool!!!
17.17.21 dreamer: it might be that one
davidflame: dwarves and barbarians
17.17.35 dreamer: is there a dwarf in it?
davidflame: lol
17.17.44 dreamer: looks like it is that one
17.17.47 dreamer: :)
davidflame: there was a treasure chest ...to gain access ...lol
davidflame: and a dwarf guarding it
davidflame: <grin>
davidflame: The sites gone :(
17.18.30 dreamer: you have the link of it, i cant find it back
17.18.34 dreamer: :)
davidflame: Jon Malis sells poser content now
davidflame: I had a look and his old free content was better than what he's doing now ....lol
17.19.46 dreamer: it happens sometimes :)
davidflame: Poser content has gone very commercial
17.19.55 dreamer: indeed
davidflame: Big market for poser content
17.20.38 dreamer: yep
17.20.45 dreamer: they are the big crowd
davidflame: Mainly thanks to Daz and probably Renderosity too
17.21.17 dreamer: and to the poser concept also :)
davidflame: Yes
davidflame: Looking at 3d apps
davidflame: the basic concepts for boneing in poser and skinning in other apps are similar
davidflame: But with other apps where you build mesh from start theres more variety in the look of the characters IMO
davidflame: I find poser base characters mean poser in renders produces very similar looking end results
17.23.34 dreamer: you can do morph targets in other soft tho if you want different results
davidflame: true
davidflame: Just seems better to learn to model ...to me
17.24.34 dreamer: but if you keep as they are, then welcome to vicky pictures number 1002357 :)
davidflame: lol
davidflame: yep
17.24.48 dreamer: i like to model myself too
davidflame: Got more freedom if I learn to model
davidflame: ;)
17.25.31 dreamer: and you can do what is in your mind
davidflame: yep exactly
davidflame: Had a look at texturing and UV mapping ...sheesh
17.26.05 dreamer: just need to acquire a little technique first :)
davidflame: lol
davidflame: and I though MJW was a lot to get to grips with ...hehe!
17.27.04 dreamer: mojo is seriously late about texturing
davidflame: Took a different path
17.27.49 dreamer: i wouldnt call basic uv a different path :p
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: I did ...hehe!
17.28.48 dreamer: this is what mojo is, half of it is 10 years ahed everybody else, and the other half is 10 years older than everybody else :)
davidflame: lol
davidflame: I think thats about right
davidflame: <grin>
17.29.57 dreamer: :)
17.30.16 dreamer: there is not even bump mapping on mesh import !!!
davidflame: fake it with diffuse loaded as displacement
17.31.00 dreamer: not even talking about displacment or normal maps :)
ashgondai has joined Weekend_Vox
17.31.11 ashgondai: hello all
17.31.17 dreamer: hey ash
davidflame: hi Ash
17.31.29 lewis: Hi Ash
17.32.06 dreamer: any trick to fake specularity maps or SSS shaders david ? :p
davidflame: Now that MJW is shipping mojoworld is taking the back seat to other apps for me
17.32.48 dreamer: back seat?
davidflame: less emphasis
17.33.16 dreamer: not sure i got that one too :)
davidflame: I spent 8 months focused on MJW
17.34.02 dreamer: so it means that now you are looking elsewhere?
davidflame: less emphasis - no longer the focus ...yes
17.34.26 dreamer: ok
davidflame: Still using it ...but not all the time ...like I was
davidflame: I redid this pic at printable size http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=682401&Form.sess_id=24178464&Form.sess_key=1101662842
davidflame: so that tied up MJW rendering too
17.36.02 lewis: I had another go at terragen the other day and gave up after 30 minutes
davidflame: lol
17.36.17 lewis: I dont like the control of it after using mojo
davidflame: Its a bit toyified
davidflame: IMO
17.36.30 dreamer: i can understand that once you have used mojo :)
davidflame: Also I don't like the render methodology
davidflame: if you watch the render doing
17.37.20 ashgondai: nice pic but whats that odd anomaly with the water on the clifftop
davidflame: its a feature ...lol
17.37.46 dreamer: very nice render david
davidflame: On the poster version I'm painting it up to look like running water
17.38.09 lewis: i really like the outcome of some terragen images but when i come to have ago myself, i lose interest because of the interface and settings
17.38.37 dreamer: i like a lot the quality of the render david
davidflame: thanks
17.39.23 dreamer: is it rendered straight from mojo?
17.39.43 lewis: yep thats a stunner david ;D
davidflame: Did that back in June I think. Finally got tile rendering with the launch version of MJW 3 so redid it larger size 4500 wide
17.40.36 lewis: how long did it take?
davidflame: two days
17.40.52 lewis: pretty good going
davidflame: non-stop
davidflame: Yep thinking about doing it much larger
davidflame: if I get some commercial work calling for a big pic
17.41.28 lewis: i sitll only have 1 poster size and that is only 2300 * 3000
17.41.42 lewis: yeh
17.42.09 dreamer: iit is not in the free stuff stuff section, is it ? :p
davidflame: the planet is .....but that location is sektrit >>>.grin
17.42.44 dreamer: what planet is it?
17.42.46 lewis: hehe
davidflame: mei omei
17.42.51 lewis: its at 3dc
davidflame: by rbutt
17.43.03 dreamer: is it tweaked version?
17.43.11 dreamer: yours i mean
davidflame: don't think so
davidflame: but I had a version which wasn't made public
17.43.33 dreamer: i must check mei omei again then :)
17.43.38 dreamer: oh
davidflame: this one I think is general release
davidflame: {I did testing prior to release as 3dc challenge world so Bob could fine-tune it}
17.44.44 dreamer: by the way, now that i have mjw3, still care to share 3 castle and a pond for personal study? :)
17.44.55 dreamer: :p
17.45.13 lewis: pond?
davidflame: sure are you wanting access to the castles
17.45.41 dreamer: its a picture of david lewis
17.45.57 dreamer: sure are you wanting access to the castles?
17.46.06 lewis: i thought it was pawn
17.46.11 dreamer: oh
17.46.13 lewis: or am i thinking of a different one
17.46.16 lewis: =)
17.46.16 dreamer: my bad :)
davidflame: http://www.rodluc.com/
davidflame: castles
davidflame: the shadowatchers tweak
davidflame: I think I've lost it
17.46.49 dreamer: i have started the dl there 2 hours ago david :)
17.47.00 dreamer: oh
17.47.23 dreamer: i have even tried them in mojo :)
davidflame: I've got some others but not the one I got the three pawns and a castle pic from
17.47.42 dreamer: such a loss :)
davidflame: In future sessions I'll take people through setting up the meshes
davidflame: and offer some tips on speeding up work
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: when dealing with mats for meshes
davidflame: but thats later <grin>
17.48.44 dreamer: i can take tips about that :)
17.49.05 lewis: http://www.lewismoorcroft.ndo.co.uk/1.jpg
17.49.09 lewis: one of th castles
17.49.11 dreamer: i have not tried much yet, i have to admit tho
davidflame: I had to learn ...when i setup 1000's of materials in a week
17.49.15 lewis: not good quality render
17.49.40 lewis: i think it is too shiny
17.49.54 dreamer: no shadows on?
davidflame: adjust the shineness?
17.50.05 lewis: no dreamer
17.50.09 lewis: and yes David
17.50.12 dreamer: why?
17.50.22 lewis: this is literally no tweaks just put in
17.50.33 lewis: it was just a test render Dreamer
davidflame: aaah
17.50.44 dreamer: ok
17.50.45 lewis: wanted to check the scales
17.51.09 lewis: (and i did this render a while ago) just so that you know i have not ignored all you said today David ;D
davidflame: lol
17.51.43 lewis: =)
17.51.50 lewis: i think the castle is too big
davidflame: Hopefully there'll be a way to fake radiosity sorted for a later session
davidflame: ;)
17.52.17 lewis: heh
17.52.36 dreamer: render time might become very scary :)
17.52.49 lewis: oh welll
17.52.53 lewis: =)
17.52.55 ashgondai: wow lewis wered you get the castle model
17.52.57 dreamer: i wonder what new angle they took for v4
17.53.16 lewis: David put the link up a bit further up
davidflame: for you ...any slight adjustment in mjw could be scary renderwise dreamer ...lol
17.53.40 lewis: www.rodluc.com
17.53.42 lewis: i think
davidflame: http://www.rodluc.com/
17.53.50 dreamer: radiosity would surely be one :)
davidflame: yep
17.53.56 ashgondai: awesome
17.54.00 lewis: they are available on rendo too
17.54.10 ashgondai: which format is best for mojo again 3ds?
17.54.14 lewis: i was digging through loads of free stuff there the other day
17.54.20 lewis: and found them all
17.54.26 lewis: i think so
17.54.33 lewis: i have lots of problems with lwo
17.54.38 dreamer: i tried the obj and 3ds version
davidflame: I'm finding obj OK
davidflame: 3ds and obj
17.54.52 dreamer: the obj got screwed with textures
davidflame: lwo 5 is ok
davidflame: but above that theres problems loading
17.55.14 lewis: everytime i try lwo it either doesn't load or mojo crashes
davidflame: though thats true for a lot of apps
17.55.43 dreamer: i think it because of subdivision being on may be
davidflame: theres even an option in Lightwave 8 to save meshes to lwo 5 format
17.56.09 lewis: mojo doenst lik tiffs either =(
davidflame: possibly so dreamer
17.56.13 lewis: like*
17.56.41 dreamer: did you guys had any luck exporting terrains with textures?
17.56.50 dreamer: it always crash for me
17.56.55 dreamer: when doing the textures
davidflame: Annes area of focus more than mine .dreamer
17.57.09 lewis: using a parameter bomb?
17.57.15 dreamer: yes
17.57.32 ashgondai: I always get a message sying it didn't load right(some error) but I can use the exported terrain anyway
17.57.37 lewis: i have not really tried other than using a mojo terrain in terragen
17.57.56 dreamer: terrain with the tewxtures, or only terrain?
17.58.17 dreamer: it is with the texture exporting part it crashes for me
17.58.21 lewis: only terrain, i was told textures can not be exported, that might be just terragen though
17.59.20 dreamer: can one of you guys make a quick test to see if it works with you?
17.59.50 lewis: ah thinking about it david the castle i put up, is that a case of turning the suns intensity donw like you said?
18.00.05 lewis: sure dreamer
18.00.10 dreamer: thanks
18.00.36 lewis: what do you want exporting exactly?
18.00.46 dreamer: terrain with texture
18.00.55 lewis: ok, into what format?
18.01.02 dreamer: obj
18.01.04 lewis: ok
davidflame: that castle is not the best
18.02.49 lewis: oh
18.03.20 ashgondai: I downloaded a castle and mojo says please locate a ton of files that I dont have
davidflame: plus I'm not wanting to tell you want to do ...if I'm going to do a session on it later <grin>
davidflame: what to do
18.03.53 ashgondai: I downloaded it in 3ds
18.03.54 lewis: in progress dreamer
18.03.58 dreamer: replace bmp by jpg in file extension
18.04.12 lewis: ok sure thing David ;D
18.04.17 dreamer: when you look in manual mode
18.04.20 dreamer: ash
18.04.25 dreamer: thanks lewis
18.04.50 ashgondai: manual mode?
davidflame: some simple things ...meshes like that one need to be further away
18.05.07 dreamer: when it says do you want to locate the file yourself
davidflame: the bitmaps are low res
18.05.30 ashgondai: I don't have the bmps that it says I need
18.05.41 dreamer: because they are jpg
18.05.52 dreamer: look at bottom of window
18.05.55 ashgondai: i don't have the jpgs either!
18.06.12 dreamer: some have different names from what i have seen
18.06.18 lewis: ok this is the first time i hae used this dreamer other than exproting as terrain so i think i have done it right
18.06.19 dreamer: so use the ones you have
18.06.24 lewis: mojo didnt crash
18.06.32 dreamer: the names are really close
davidflame: if its from rodluc - check the images aren't seperate
18.06.44 dreamer: you got the texture too?
18.06.49 lewis: i have a 9MB object file and a 1KB MTL file
davidflame: if you have them - do as dreamer said
18.07.09 dreamer: so you dont have the texture either then
18.07.16 dreamer: hmm
18.07.30 dreamer: did you check the export texture also?
18.07.42 lewis: yes as a jpg
18.07.54 lewis: woah
18.07.55 dreamer: and you dont have it on hardrive?
18.08.01 lewis: ok the obj file is now 430 MB
18.08.08 dreamer: :)
18.08.39 lewis: ?
18.08.56 lewis: mojo is still busy i thinik
18.09.05 dreamer: you should have 3 files, 1 .obj , 1 .mtl, 1 .jpg
18.09.10 lewis: i am lagging up =(
18.09.18 lewis: maybe the jpg is on the way
18.09.37 dreamer: so let us wait a bit, texture export is quite long with mojo
18.09.53 lewis: ok
davidflame: Lewis ...if you're going to work with meshes a lot consider developing a textures library ...so you can replace low res with hi res textures too
18.10.11 lewis: ok David =)
davidflame: Sometimes the only way to improve the look is to replace the textures
18.10.38 dreamer: having a texture library is always a good idea in the 3D world :)
18.11.09 lewis: jpg just come up
davidflame: Also if you load a mesh and plan to use it but find it looks crap ...save it to .mjl format
18.11.18 dreamer: cool
davidflame: you can always rework the mats later
18.11.35 lewis: true
18.11.37 lewis: =)
18.11.38 dreamer: thanks lewis
18.11.48 lewis: np
18.11.54 dreamer: you can erase that 430 megs file now :)
18.12.03 lewis: thanks LOL
davidflame: I've started building up a library of saved meshes in .mjl format too
18.12.48 lewis: cool
18.12.58 dreamer: about specularity on the castle, i just replaced everyone from 10 to 180 for a test, and it looks pretty cool
davidflame: Not so good for mjw 2 but great with mjw 3 because it embeds the image files in the save .mjl
davidflame: yes specular is a biggie
davidflame: the default white is crap
18.13.39 lewis: lol
davidflame: also adjusting the shineness is often another neccesary move
18.13.59 ashgondai: Whats big_assi.jpg?
davidflame: wooden board I think
18.14.21 dreamer: oops, i was talking about shininess
davidflame: or a self referential statement issued by you Ash
davidflame: <evil grin>
18.15.00 ashgondai: Its one of the things that didn't come with the castle I downloaded
davidflame: its ok it comes with some of the other castles
18.15.27 ashgondai: Do I need it?
18.15.50 ashgondai: and all the other 6 or so files that don't come with the file?
18.16.27 dreamer: i need to go guys, it was good talking with you today
davidflame: Which castle are you looking at Ash?
18.16.37 ashgondai: akbar
davidflame: k see ya dreamer
18.16.45 dreamer: have fun
18.16.47 ashgondai: cya
18.16.49 lewis: c ya
dreamer has left channel Weekend_Vox
18.17.03 lewis: i am going to have to start thinking about dinner
davidflame: locanda is good to practise with
18.18.25 ashgondai: do I need to download the "maps" to get th e akbar file to work?
davidflame: yep maps is what you need
davidflame: ;)
18.19.10 ashgondai: k
18.19.12 lewis: damn, expleror crash...again
18.19.23 lewis: explorer
davidflame: :(
davidflame: time for me to get something to eat here
18.19.58 lewis: ok c ya David
18.20.01 lewis: thanks for your tmie
18.20.03 lewis: time*
18.20.10 ashgondai: cya
davidflame: np - I'll save this log and then post it later
18.20.35 lewis: ok cool
davidflame: :)
davidflame: might transfer the pics to another location first
18.21.14 lewis: ah, dont want to make dud links
davidflame: I'll have a look at the castles and choose the easiest to work with for upcoming sessions
18.21.59 lewis: hehe
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: Village would be a so and so to work with
davidflame: I know I've loaded it in Bryce and Mjw
davidflame: <grin>
18.22.49 lewis: yes i tried that on too
davidflame: obj is different from 3ds
davidflame: obj is saved as seperate buildings
davidflame: if that helps
davidflame: You need to be comfortable working with meshes to venture into some of them <grin>
18.24.04 ashgondai: Damn mojo crashed and I found a perfect spot on soylent for the castle
davidflame: lol
18.24.37 lewis: you get a lot of mojo crashes Ash
davidflame: setup a camera and save
18.24.39 lewis: =(
18.24.49 ashgondai: I know
davidflame: ;)
davidflame: k laters