Family History


MARY ANN HARRIET MARTIN WAS THE SISTER OF MY HUSBAND'S ANCESTOR. THIS PAGE IS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION. IF YOU HAVE ANY CORRECTIONS OR ADDITIONS PLEASE E-MAIL ME Martis1@hotmail.com

Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Born: 1830 Lambeth

Father; Joseph Martin

Mother: Sarah Johnson

Baptised: 25/12/1830 St maryís Lambeth

Died; 1897 Whitechapel district.

Married; 27/8/1855 St Dunstans, Stepney

Spouse: Alexander William Lindsay (see note 1)

Born; 1826 Whitechapel or Wellington, Shropshire.

Died : 1893 Bethn al green district

Parents: Alexander William Lindsay, gunsmith

Children: William Alexander b 4/4/1856 Whitechapel (see Note1)

Eliza Sarah Lindsay b 3/12/1857 Whitechapel (see Note 2)

John Edward Lindsay b 20/2/1860 Whitechapel (see Note 3)

William John Lindsay b 4/9/1865 Whitechapel (see Note 4)

Alexander Lindsay b a1866 Whitechapel (see Note 6)

John Lindsay b 1869 Whitechapel (see Note 7)

Note: At time of marriage both living 14 Redmans? Row. He signed she made her mark. Witnessed by Isabella Lindsay, Ithiel? Price

1830 baptism register: Living Palace Street, Lambeth. Fatherís occupation gunsmith

1841 census: Living Walberg St, St George East with John and Clara Keen, and her younger siblings.

William Linsay was living Wellington Street West Whitechapel with parents Alexander Lindsay (born Scotland) and Abigail Lindsay (born 1800 Corby, Northants)and sisters Isabella, Eliza and Abigail

1851 cenus: Residing with parents. Occupation: slop worker

William living 30 Wellington Street with widowed mother (now a dressmaker) and sister Abigail

1855: At time of marriage both living 14 Redmans? Row. He signed she made her mark. Witnessed by Isabella Lindsay, Ithiel? Price

1861 census: Mary Ann living with her parents, no record of William with them, William Linsay in 1861 was lodging with William & Sarah Eveerett 47 Oxford Street? Mile End gunmaker born Wellington. Status as unmarried. Mary was making slop trousers

1871 census: living 3 Little Collingwood Street Bethnal Green. Occupation: gunmaker

1881 census: Residing 51 Queen Ann St with Edward, William, Alexander and John. Sharing same building as James Sweeney, his wife and two children and Patrick Driscoll, his wife and seven children

1891 census; 21 Charlotte Street Occupation: needlewoman, had visitor John Cocklin 23 living with them. Shared the house with Edmund McKay and Margaret, general labourer and tailoress.

William Lindsay was living 24 Lisbon Street, Bethnal Green with sister Isabella Hood (born 1828) and her husband Robert Hood (born 1835) tailor.

Note 1: Called William Lindsay on census returns

WILLIAM ALEXANDER LINDSAY

BORN: 4/4/1856 whitechapel

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 22/2/1857 St Mary Whitechapel

Died: 1857 Whitechapel district

ELIZA SARAH LINDSAY

Born: 1857 Whitechapel

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 2/10/1859 St Mary Whitechapel

Married: 2/6/1879 St brtholomew, Bethnal Green

Spouse: Alfred Charles Milburn

Born: 1857

Father: Alfred Charles Milburn

Died: 1894 Whitechapel district

Children: Alfred Milburn b 1880 Mile End (see Note 1)

Edward Milburn b 1882 Mile End (see Note 2)

George Milburn b 1884 hackney (see Note 3)

Sydney Milburn b 1890 Mile End (see Note 4)

Lilian Milburn b 1892 Mile End (see Note 5)

 

 

1871 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: nursemaid

1879: marriage certificate. Eliza residing 4 Albert Street, Alfred at 2a. His father given as accustom house officer, hers as gun maker. Witnessed by James Cliff and ? Dudley Clarke.

1881 census: Residing 3 Albert Street, Mile End Old Town. Occupation: stack work labourer (manuf chem.). Eliza given as Sarah

1891 census: Residing 4 Entick Street Mile End Old Town. Occupation: labourer in starch works

1901 census: Residing 4 Entick Rd, Mile End Old Town. Occupation: worker in laundry

1911 census. Widow Eliza residing 31 Lyal Rd, Bow,. Occupation: office cleaner

Note 1: Alfred Milburn.

1901 census: Residing with mother occupation: publisherís assistant.

1911 census: Residing with mother Occupation: printerís clerk

Note 2: Edward Milburn married 2/10/1904 St Leonard St Mary Bromley Harriett Elizabeth Allum born 1881 Bethnal Green. He was living 4 Entrick Street, she was living 33 Leamon Street. Her father was John Edward Allum stevedore. Witnesses H Ellis and Alice Treadaway

Children: Edward John Milburn born 1905 West Ham; Lilian Daisy Milburn born 1906 West Ham; George Milburn born 1909 West Ham .

1901 census: Residing with mother occupation: bricklayerís apprentice

1911 census: Residing 77 Stanley Road Stratford. Occupation: bricklayer. Father, widower John Allum and sister-in-law with them

Note 3: George Milburn. 1901 census: messenger at port

Note 4: Sydney Milburn.

1911 census: Residing with mother: occupation: bookbinderís apprentice

Note 5: Lilian Milburn.

1911 census: Residing with mother Occupation: album & scrap book maker

JOHN EDWARD LINDSAY

Born: 20/2/1860 Whitechapel

Father: Alexander William Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 28/10/1860 St Mary Whitechapel

Died: 1888 (unable to find register of death)

Married: 25/12/1885 Roman Catholic Church, Whitechapel (see Note 1)

Spouse: Annie Crowley

(see Note 3)

Born: 1865 Ireland

Parents: Daniel Crowley

Children: Mary Ann Lindsay b 1888 Whitechapel (see Note 2)

1881 census: Residing with mother. Name given as Edward. Occupation: labourer

1891 census; Annie widow residing 14 Wellington St, Plaistow. Occupation: charwoman

Note 1: Marriage witnessed by Eugene Crowley and Bridget ? . Daniel Crowley possibly bricklayer. Name given as Edward Lindsay, residence 76 Charlotte Street. She was living 74 Queen Ann St. He made his mark, she signed.

Note 2: Father given as Edward Lindsay deceased. She died March quarter 1890 Bethnal green district. Place of birth given as 21 Charlotte Court. Mary Ann registered the birth 22/10/1888 and made her mark, then living 12 and a half Spring Gardens, Mile End New Town

Note 3: Possibly 1881 census recorded as Hannah Crowley residing 4 Elizabeth Place, Whitechapel. Born Whitechapel. Living with Margaret Crowley, 60, hawker born Cork, Daniel Crowley 30 labourer born Cork. An Ann Crowley is recorded Dec q 1865 Whitechapel. On 1871 census at 12 Elizabeth Place there is Daniel Crowley 60 dockyard worker, Margaret 45, Daniel 20 bricklayers labourer out of work and Mary 16. In 1891 a Margaret Crowley aged 70 was in the workhouse Greenwich

 

 

WILLIAM JOHN LINDSAY

Born: 4/9/1865 Whitechapel

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 29/2/1866 Whitechapel

Married: 30/7/1887 St Mary Whitechapel

Spouse: Eleanor Sarah Todd

Born: 1865 Spitalfields

Children: William Gibbard Lindsay born 1897 Walthamstow

Eleanor Mary Lindsay born 1902 Walthamstow

30/7/1887 William residing 21 Charlotte Court, Eleanor 57 Queen Ann Street. Her father given as George Henry Todd, cooper. His as William Alexander Lindsay gun maker (no mention of being deceased). Witnesses NL Barnes and K C Todd

1891: 26/11/1891 both witnesses at wedding of brother John St Mary, Whitechapel

1901 census: Residing 15 Clacton Road, Walthamstow. Occupation: warehouse porter

1911 census: Residing: 54 Carnarvon Rd, Leyton Occupation: warehouse porter

                 
                   
                   

Bottom of Form

ALEXANDER LINDSAY

Born: abt 1866 Whitechapel.(birth not registered)

Father: Alexander William Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 26/4/1868 St Mary Whitechapel

Married: 25/12/1891 St George in the East

Spouse: Teresa Emily Fugaccia

Born: 1869 St George East,

Parents: James and Emily Fugaccia. (see Note 1)

Children: Arthur Charles Lindsay b 1892 Whitechapel (see Note 2)

Alice Emily Lindsay b 1893 St George in the East (see Note 3)

Charles Alexander Lindsay b 1895 Whitechapel(see Note 4)

Nellie Teresa Lindsay b 1897 Whitechapel

1891 census: Residing with mother. Occupation: general labourer

25/12/1891 marriage certificate: both residing 3 Princes Street. Fathers given as gunmaker and frame maker (William Lindsay not given as being deceased). Witnesses Joseph Newman, Alice Fugaccia

1901 census: Residing 39 Entick Street, Mile End (sharing)

1911 census: Residing 22 Clevelend Street, Mile End Road East, Mile End Old Town. Occupation: floating in manufacture of hard

Note 1: James Fugaccia came from Italy and 1881 was an unemployed frame maker.

Note 2: Arthur Charles Lindsay. 1911 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: employed at saw mill

Note 3: Alice Emily Lindsay. 1911 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: office clerk student

Note 4: Charles Alexander Lindsay. 1911 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: employed at motor works

JOHN LINDSAY

Born: 1869 Whitechapel (see Note 1)

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Married: 26/11/1891 St Mary Whitechapel (see Note 2)

Spouse: Sarah Davis

Born: 1872

Father: William Davis

1891 census: Residing with mother. Occupation: carman

Note 1: Birth registered Bethnal green district

Note 2: Witnessed by William John and Eleanor Sarah Lindsay. All sighed apart from Sarah who made her mark. Fathers given as William Alexander Lindsay gunmaker and William Davis chimneysweep. John living 21 Charlotte Court, Sarah 9 Scott Street, Bethnal Green

 

The same Charles Booth who wrote about Hoop Benders also wrote about carmen and their work in his Life and Labour of the People of London.

Even though it was written in 1903 it offers some interesting observations. Referring to statistics gathered in the 1891 census he wrote of the

"...43,801* Carmen, Carters, Van Boys etc... employed in driving or taking charge of vehicles which carry merchandise"

[* Figures for London]

and distinguished them -

"from those.... who drive or take charge of vehicles conveying passengers...... A large proportion of the carmen attend to their own horses. The vans driven and attended to by these men include an immense variety of vehicles, ranging from the iron trolley used to move heavy pieces of machinery and drawn by six or even eight horses, to the little spring cart and pony which is but one remove from a costermonger"s barrow. They include also a vast number of tradesmen's hooded carts and those mere boxes on wheels which are used when speed is the principal object, as in the distribution of letters and newspapers. With heavy traffic the pay and position of the driver primarily depends on whether he drives one horse or two. Beyond this the conditions of employment depend mainly on whether the employing firm has few or many carts. ..... the great bulk (of the trade) consists in the handling of vans and carts belonging to a multitude of businessmen in every part of London. Some ' Some firms even refuse to provide cloths for the horses, on the grounds that, if they did, the men would use them! ' trades require carts of a peculiar shape, as for example those used by brewers, specially suited to the carriage of barrels, or for the transport of the light mass of reeking 'grains', or again such as the hearse-like vehicles arranged to carry pianos. In other cases, as for instance with dealers in furniture or ironmongery, the goods to be moved are not packed, or hardly packed, and special carts and men are required to effect the delivery safely. Beyond this, even with those whose goods might be equally well carried by a parcel's delivery company, an advantage is found in the value of the van as a moving advertisment; and finally, if other considerations are nearly balanced, a tradesman likes to have his own cart and horse and his own man, for it is convenient in a hundred ways, besides being a source of pleasure at times on Sundays and holidays."

.... Competition as to rates of wages is practically absent. It is probable that the hours are long, and in some cases very long, but as a rule the work is not exhausting, nor such as to divorce the men from home life.

Hours of Work:

The main grievance in this trade concerns the length of the working day. There is no doubt that very long hours prevail. A week's work, inclusive of time occupied in the stable, will average from 96 to 100 hours. No overtime is paid in any systematic way, but 1s (ie 5p) may be allowed for an extra load. If,for instance, a man is ordered out at 3am in place of 6am he will usually get 1s (5p) or 1s 3d (6p) extra; and for starting at midnight and working on through the day an additional 2s (1Op) may be paid; but some employers do not give as much as this. On Sundays the horses have to be attended to. The vans are usually out all day, and every day during the week, except when laid up for repairs, or unless trade be very slack. The work, however, is seldom strenuous, and always involves more or less waiting. These intervals, which may be between jobs or when waiting in turn for a load, are of uncertain duration, from a few minutes to one or two hours. One informant says that about three hours is the average time occupied in "standing', and that this includes meal times, for which no regular provision is made. At times a man may 'put the nosebag on his horse' and go to sleep himself, but such occasions are said to be rare, and that on the whole the hours occupied are hours of work. The horses work the same length of time as the men. There is no change of team. This in itself would seem to be some guarantee that the number of hours of standing must be a considerable proportion of the whole. Except with the railway companies, and a few of the large contractors, the men have to clean and water their horses. Horse-keepers are employed to feed them.

Wages:

For such long hours as prevail, the pay is low. There is perhaps no man's employment which yields so small a return per hour. To drive a cart demands but little skill, nor any exceptional intelligence, and there is nothing like the physical exhaustion which puts a natural limit to hours of work in many trades. Moreover, the hours in which goods are moved by road extend almost necessarily early and late, preceding or following the work of others. For one horse vans men's wages vary from 18s (9Op) to 24s (£1.2O), and boys are often employed at lower rates. Some of the heaviest work is paid no more than 18s (90p). for two-horse vans the pay varies from 22s (£1.10) to 26s (£1.3O) with a few at 28s (£1.40). For three or four horses no particular difference is made; 3Os (£1.50) per week is the maximum rate, and few employers pay as much. .......At one time tips were almost a system, but are no longer usual, excepting perhaps with the men engaged in parcels delivery, who may still substantially augment their wages in this way. Drink is given more often than money, and what money is received most frequently goes to the public-house. It is admitted that carmen are largely addicted to strong drink, but it is not supposed that it plays any considerable part in their sickness and mortality."

"The men suffer from rheumatism and bronchitis, and such illnesses are the most prevalent and dangerous, as on the whole the men are ill provided with warm clothes, presenting in this respect a striking contrast to cab and 'busmen. Old bags are a common makeshift for an overcoat. The railway companies and large private firms almost invariably supply aprons or rugs, but in many cases the men have to find their own, and then they are usually not provided at all. Some firms even refuse to provide cloths for the horses, on the grounds that, if they did, the men would use them!"

"If not incapacitated by actual illness or removed by death, men may continue long at this work. Men of seventy years of age may be found driving vans, and they have been known to work to within a few days of death. With carmen there is no such thing as partial loss of capacity affecting wages, but at sixty a man would find difficulty in getting a job if thrown out of work."

Social Condition:

Of the 33,519* adult men (figures from the 1891 Census return) employed in these trades, about 23,850 are head of families. Comparing the earnings as indicated in the combined return with the scale of social conditions, we have 61% earning under 25s (£1.25) a week compared with 58% living in a more or less crowded condition (3 or more in each room). 29.5% earning from 25s (£1.25) to 35s (£1.75).... living one and less than two persons to a room and 9.5% earning over 35s (£1.75) with less than one person to a room."

[* Figures for London]

 

 

 

 

MARY ANN HARRIET MARTIN WAS THE SISTER OF MY HUSBAND'S ANCESTOR. THIS PAGE IS STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION. IF YOU HAVE ANY CORRECTIONS OR ADDITIONS PLEASE E-MAIL ME Martis1@hotmail.com

Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Born: 1830 Lambeth

Father; Joseph Martin

Mother: Sarah Johnson

Baptised: 25/12/1830 St maryís Lambeth

Died; 1897 Whitechapel district.

Married; 27/8/1855 St Dunstans, Stepney

Spouse: Alexander William Lindsay (see note 1)

Born; 1826 Whitechapel or Wellington, Shropshire.

Died : 1893 Bethn al green district

Parents: Alexander William Lindsay, gunsmith

Children: William Alexander b 4/4/1856 Whitechapel (see Note1)

Eliza Sarah Lindsay b 3/12/1857 Whitechapel (see Note 2)

John Edward Lindsay b 20/2/1860 Whitechapel (see Note 3)

William John Lindsay b 4/9/1865 Whitechapel (see Note 4)

Alexander Lindsay b a1866 Whitechapel (see Note 6)

John Lindsay b 1869 Whitechapel (see Note 7)

Note: At time of marriage both living 14 Redmans? Row. He signed she made her mark. Witnessed by Isabella Lindsay, Ithiel? Price

1830 baptism register: Living Palace Street, Lambeth. Fatherís occupation gunsmith

1841 census: Living Walberg St, St George East with John and Clara Keen, and her younger siblings.

William Linsay was living Wellington Street West Whitechapel with parents Alexander Lindsay (born Scotland) and Abigail Lindsay (born 1800 Corby, Northants)and sisters Isabella, Eliza and Abigail

1851 cenus: Residing with parents. Occupation: slop worker

William living 30 Wellington Street with widowed mother (now a dressmaker) and sister Abigail

1855: At time of marriage both living 14 Redmans? Row. He signed she made her mark. Witnessed by Isabella Lindsay, Ithiel? Price

1861 census: Mary Ann living with her parents, no record of William with them, William Linsay in 1861 was lodging with William & Sarah Eveerett 47 Oxford Street? Mile End gunmaker born Wellington. Status as unmarried. Mary was making slop trousers

1871 census: living 3 Little Collingwood Street Bethnal Green. Occupation: gunmaker

1881 census: Residing 51 Queen Ann St with Edward, William, Alexander and John. Sharing same building as James Sweeney, his wife and two children and Patrick Driscoll, his wife and seven children

1891 census; 21 Charlotte Street Occupation: needlewoman, had visitor John Cocklin 23 living with them. Shared the house with Edmund McKay and Margaret, general labourer and tailoress.

William Lindsay was living 24 Lisbon Street, Bethnal Green with sister Isabella Hood (born 1828) and her husband Robert Hood (born 1835) tailor.

Note 1: Called William Lindsay on census returns

WILLIAM ALEXANDER LINDSAY

BORN: 4/4/1856 whitechapel

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 22/2/1857 St Mary Whitechapel

Died: 1857 Whitechapel district

ELIZA SARAH LINDSAY

Born: 1857 Whitechapel

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 2/10/1859 St Mary Whitechapel

Married: 2/6/1879 St brtholomew, Bethnal Green

Spouse: Alfred Charles Milburn

Born: 1857

Father: Alfred Charles Milburn

Died: 1894 Whitechapel district

Children: Alfred Milburn b 1880 Mile End (see Note 1)

Edward Milburn b 1882 Mile End (see Note 2)

George Milburn b 1884 hackney (see Note 3)

Sydney Milburn b 1890 Mile End (see Note 4)

Lilian Milburn b 1892 Mile End (see Note 5)

 

 

1871 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: nursemaid

1879: marriage certificate. Eliza residing 4 Albert Street, Alfred at 2a. His father given as accustom house officer, hers as gun maker. Witnessed by James Cliff and ? Dudley Clarke.

1881 census: Residing 3 Albert Street, Mile End Old Town. Occupation: stack work labourer (manuf chem.). Eliza given as Sarah

1891 census: Residing 4 Entick Street Mile End Old Town. Occupation: labourer in starch works

1901 census: Residing 4 Entick Rd, Mile End Old Town. Occupation: worker in laundry

1911 census. Widow Eliza residing 31 Lyal Rd, Bow,. Occupation: office cleaner

Note 1: Alfred Milburn.

1901 census: Residing with mother occupation: publisherís assistant.

1911 census: Residing with mother Occupation: printerís clerk

Note 2: Edward Milburn married 2/10/1904 St Leonard St Mary Bromley Harriett Elizabeth Allum born 1881 Bethnal Green. He was living 4 Entrick Street, she was living 33 Leamon Street. Her father was John Edward Allum stevedore. Witnesses H Ellis and Alice Treadaway

Children: Edward John Milburn born 1905 West Ham; Lilian Daisy Milburn born 1906 West Ham; George Milburn born 1909 West Ham .

1901 census: Residing with mother occupation: bricklayerís apprentice

1911 census: Residing 77 Stanley Road Stratford. Occupation: bricklayer. Father, widower John Allum and sister-in-law with them

Note 3: George Milburn. 1901 census: messenger at port

Note 4: Sydney Milburn.

1911 census: Residing with mother: occupation: bookbinderís apprentice

Note 5: Lilian Milburn.

1911 census: Residing with mother Occupation: album & scrap book maker

JOHN EDWARD LINDSAY

Born: 20/2/1860 Whitechapel

Father: Alexander William Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 28/10/1860 St Mary Whitechapel

Died: 1888 (unable to find register of death)

Married: 25/12/1885 Roman Catholic Church, Whitechapel (see Note 1)

Spouse: Annie Crowley

(see Note 3)

Born: 1865 Ireland

Parents: Daniel Crowley

Children: Mary Ann Lindsay b 1888 Whitechapel (see Note 2)

1881 census: Residing with mother. Name given as Edward. Occupation: labourer

1891 census; Annie widow residing 14 Wellington St, Plaistow. Occupation: charwoman

Note 1: Marriage witnessed by Eugene Crowley and Bridget ? . Daniel Crowley possibly bricklayer. Name given as Edward Lindsay, residence 76 Charlotte Street. She was living 74 Queen Ann St. He made his mark, she signed.

Note 2: Father given as Edward Lindsay deceased. She died March quarter 1890 Bethnal green district. Place of birth given as 21 Charlotte Court. Mary Ann registered the birth 22/10/1888 and made her mark, then living 12 and a half Spring Gardens, Mile End New Town

Note 3: Possibly 1881 census recorded as Hannah Crowley residing 4 Elizabeth Place, Whitechapel. Born Whitechapel. Living with Margaret Crowley, 60, hawker born Cork, Daniel Crowley 30 labourer born Cork. An Ann Crowley is recorded Dec q 1865 Whitechapel. On 1871 census at 12 Elizabeth Place there is Daniel Crowley 60 dockyard worker, Margaret 45, Daniel 20 bricklayers labourer out of work and Mary 16. In 1891 a Margaret Crowley aged 70 was in the workhouse Greenwich

 

 

WILLIAM JOHN LINDSAY

Born: 4/9/1865 Whitechapel

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 29/2/1866 Whitechapel

Married: 30/7/1887 St Mary Whitechapel

Spouse: Eleanor Sarah Todd

Born: 1865 Spitalfields

Children: William Gibbard Lindsay born 1897 Walthamstow

Eleanor Mary Lindsay born 1902 Walthamstow

30/7/1887 William residing 21 Charlotte Court, Eleanor 57 Queen Ann Street. Her father given as George Henry Todd, cooper. His as William Alexander Lindsay gun maker (no mention of being deceased). Witnesses NL Barnes and K C Todd

1891: 26/11/1891 both witnesses at wedding of brother John St Mary, Whitechapel

1901 census: Residing 15 Clacton Road, Walthamstow. Occupation: warehouse porter

1911 census: Residing: 54 Carnarvon Rd, Leyton Occupation: warehouse porter

                 
                   
                   

Bottom of Form

ALEXANDER LINDSAY

Born: abt 1866 Whitechapel.(birth not registered)

Father: Alexander William Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Baptised: 26/4/1868 St Mary Whitechapel

Married: 25/12/1891 St George in the East

Spouse: Teresa Emily Fugaccia

Born: 1869 St George East,

Parents: James and Emily Fugaccia. (see Note 1)

Children: Arthur Charles Lindsay b 1892 Whitechapel (see Note 2)

Alice Emily Lindsay b 1893 St George in the East (see Note 3)

Charles Alexander Lindsay b 1895 Whitechapel(see Note 4)

Nellie Teresa Lindsay b 1897 Whitechapel

1891 census: Residing with mother. Occupation: general labourer

25/12/1891 marriage certificate: both residing 3 Princes Street. Fathers given as gunmaker and frame maker (William Lindsay not given as being deceased). Witnesses Joseph Newman, Alice Fugaccia

1901 census: Residing 39 Entick Street, Mile End (sharing)

1911 census: Residing 22 Clevelend Street, Mile End Road East, Mile End Old Town. Occupation: floating in manufacture of hard

Note 1: James Fugaccia came from Italy and 1881 was an unemployed frame maker.

Note 2: Arthur Charles Lindsay. 1911 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: employed at saw mill

Note 3: Alice Emily Lindsay. 1911 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: office clerk student

Note 4: Charles Alexander Lindsay. 1911 census: Residing with parents. Occupation: employed at motor works

JOHN LINDSAY

Born: 1869 Whitechapel (see Note 1)

Father: William Alexander Lindsay

Mother: Mary Ann Harriet Martin

Married: 26/11/1891 St Mary Whitechapel (see Note 2)

Spouse: Sarah Davis

Born: 1872

Father: William Davis

1891 census: Residing with mother. Occupation: carman

Note 1: Birth registered Bethnal green district

Note 2: Witnessed by William John and Eleanor Sarah Lindsay. All sighed apart from Sarah who made her mark. Fathers given as William Alexander Lindsay gunmaker and William Davis chimneysweep. John living 21 Charlotte Court, Sarah 9 Scott Street, Bethnal Green

 

The same Charles Booth who wrote about Hoop Benders also wrote about carmen and their work in his Life and Labour of the People of London.

Even though it was written in 1903 it offers some interesting observations. Referring to statistics gathered in the 1891 census he wrote of the

"...43,801* Carmen, Carters, Van Boys etc... employed in driving or taking charge of vehicles which carry merchandise"

[* Figures for London]

and distinguished them -

"from those.... who drive or take charge of vehicles conveying passengers...... A large proportion of the carmen attend to their own horses. The vans driven and attended to by these men include an immense variety of vehicles, ranging from the iron trolley used to move heavy pieces of machinery and drawn by six or even eight horses, to the little spring cart and pony which is but one remove from a costermonger"s barrow. They include also a vast number of tradesmen's hooded carts and those mere boxes on wheels which are used when speed is the principal object, as in the distribution of letters and newspapers. With heavy traffic the pay and position of the driver primarily depends on whether he drives one horse or two. Beyond this the conditions of employment depend mainly on whether the employing firm has few or many carts. ..... the great bulk (of the trade) consists in the handling of vans and carts belonging to a multitude of businessmen in every part of London. Some ' Some firms even refuse to provide cloths for the horses, on the grounds that, if they did, the men would use them! ' trades require carts of a peculiar shape, as for example those used by brewers, specially suited to the carriage of barrels, or for the transport of the light mass of reeking 'grains', or again such as the hearse-like vehicles arranged to carry pianos. In other cases, as for instance with dealers in furniture or ironmongery, the goods to be moved are not packed, or hardly packed, and special carts and men are required to effect the delivery safely. Beyond this, even with those whose goods might be equally well carried by a parcel's delivery company, an advantage is found in the value of the van as a moving advertisment; and finally, if other considerations are nearly balanced, a tradesman likes to have his own cart and horse and his own man, for it is convenient in a hundred ways, besides being a source of pleasure at times on Sundays and holidays."

.... Competition as to rates of wages is practically absent. It is probable that the hours are long, and in some cases very long, but as a rule the work is not exhausting, nor such as to divorce the men from home life.

Hours of Work:

The main grievance in this trade concerns the length of the working day. There is no doubt that very long hours prevail. A week's work, inclusive of time occupied in the stable, will average from 96 to 100 hours. No overtime is paid in any systematic way, but 1s (ie 5p) may be allowed for an extra load. If,for instance, a man is ordered out at 3am in place of 6am he will usually get 1s (5p) or 1s 3d (6p) extra; and for starting at midnight and working on through the day an additional 2s (1Op) may be paid; but some employers do not give as much as this. On Sundays the horses have to be attended to. The vans are usually out all day, and every day during the week, except when laid up for repairs, or unless trade be very slack. The work, however, is seldom strenuous, and always involves more or less waiting. These intervals, which may be between jobs or when waiting in turn for a load, are of uncertain duration, from a few minutes to one or two hours. One informant says that about three hours is the average time occupied in "standing', and that this includes meal times, for which no regular provision is made. At times a man may 'put the nosebag on his horse' and go to sleep himself, but such occasions are said to be rare, and that on the whole the hours occupied are hours of work. The horses work the same length of time as the men. There is no change of team. This in itself would seem to be some guarantee that the number of hours of standing must be a considerable proportion of the whole. Except with the railway companies, and a few of the large contractors, the men have to clean and water their horses. Horse-keepers are employed to feed them.

Wages:

For such long hours as prevail, the pay is low. There is perhaps no man's employment which yields so small a return per hour. To drive a cart demands but little skill, nor any exceptional intelligence, and there is nothing like the physical exhaustion which puts a natural limit to hours of work in many trades. Moreover, the hours in which goods are moved by road extend almost necessarily early and late, preceding or following the work of others. For one horse vans men's wages vary from 18s (9Op) to 24s (£1.2O), and boys are often employed at lower rates. Some of the heaviest work is paid no more than 18s (90p). for two-horse vans the pay varies from 22s (£1.10) to 26s (£1.3O) with a few at 28s (£1.40). For three or four horses no particular difference is made; 3Os (£1.50) per week is the maximum rate, and few employers pay as much. .......At one time tips were almost a system, but are no longer usual, excepting perhaps with the men engaged in parcels delivery, who may still substantially augment their wages in this way. Drink is given more often than money, and what money is received most frequently goes to the public-house. It is admitted that carmen are largely addicted to strong drink, but it is not supposed that it plays any considerable part in their sickness and mortality."

"The men suffer from rheumatism and bronchitis, and such illnesses are the most prevalent and dangerous, as on the whole the men are ill provided with warm clothes, presenting in this respect a striking contrast to cab and 'busmen. Old bags are a common makeshift for an overcoat. The railway companies and large private firms almost invariably supply aprons or rugs, but in many cases the men have to find their own, and then they are usually not provided at all. Some firms even refuse to provide cloths for the horses, on the grounds that, if they did, the men would use them!"

"If not incapacitated by actual illness or removed by death, men may continue long at this work. Men of seventy years of age may be found driving vans, and they have been known to work to within a few days of death. With carmen there is no such thing as partial loss of capacity affecting wages, but at sixty a man would find difficulty in getting a job if thrown out of work."

Social Condition:

Of the 33,519* adult men (figures from the 1891 Census return) employed in these trades, about 23,850 are head of families. Comparing the earnings as indicated in the combined return with the scale of social conditions, we have 61% earning under 25s (£1.25) a week compared with 58% living in a more or less crowded condition (3 or more in each room). 29.5% earning from 25s (£1.25) to 35s (£1.75).... living one and less than two persons to a room and 9.5% earning over 35s (£1.75) with less than one person to a room."

[* Figures for London]