All have sinned?

Immaculate Conception..Sinless Mary, Have Absolutely All Sinned?

The most common objection to Mary’s sinlessness is Luke where Mary’s refers to “God my savior.”

It is claimed “If she was sinless how could she have a savior.” The answer requires some knowledge of what Peligianism is. It is the belief that man by his own power can enter heaven, where by freewill, or doing good works, they believe God’s grace is not necessary. This is heresy. Against the Peligians the Second Council of Orange declared:

"That no one is saved except by God's mercy. Even if human nature remained in that integrity in which it was formed, it would in no way save itself without the help of its Creator; therefore, since without the grace of God it cannot guard the health which it received, how without the grace of God will it be able to recover what it has lost?"--Canon 19

This teaches even SINLESS people need saviors.

This says that even had Adam and Eve not fallen, kept their immaculate state, God would still be their savior, they could not save themselves, it would be God’s grace that would have kept them from falling, not merely their freewill, sin man by his own power cannot keep his salvation, grace is and was always necessary for Man’s salvation.

So why did Mary say she had a savior? Because she was hailed as the “graced one” which in Greek states even before the encounter she was with Grace. It was God’s grace always working in her life that prevented from sinning so that she might become the perfect mother for the Son of God.

In brief, God was Mary’s savior because He prevented her from falling into sin, since Man cannot save himself without the help of its Creator. Mary is considered the New Eve, this doctrine has been from the earliest of Ages, the first Eve sinned, and because of her disobedience we die, Mary is the New Eve, she was always obedient and through her God brough fourth Jesus the Savior.

The following verses are examples where the word “all” is used. Notice in the bible “all” does not always literally mean all. Certainly Calvinists believe all does not always mean all since they don’t believe Jesus died for “all the world,” and may refer to the census stating the Emperor took a census of the “whole world” (Luke 2:1). I have also encountered Protestants who profess the Kenotic doctrine, which teaches that Christ did not know all things in the time after the Incarnation and til His death on the Cross. This is too a heresy, and one I have address on another page. The Bible states “Lord, You know all things;” and at this point a professor of the Kenotic doctrine such as DrTony777 on paltalk, a Pentecostal, will say it does not REALLY mean all things, maybe all things in that context, others will say, it does not literally mean all.

Considering these two cope outs, why will they not admit when Romans 3:23 says “all have sinned” all does not mean all, it certainly does not mean Christ, who is not even listed as an exception.

Romans 3:23
Greek Majority	παντες γαρ ημαρτον και υστερουνται της δοξης του θεου
Transliterated	panteV gar hmarton kai usterountai thV doxhV tou qeou
Word-by-Word	All for missed and are-wanting of-the glory of-the God
Translation	all have sinned and are deprived of the glory of God.

1 Corinthians 15:22
Greek Majority	ωσπερ γαρ εν τω αδαμ παντες αποθνησκουσιν ουτως και εν τω χριστω παντες ζωοποιηθησονται
Transliterated	wsper gar en tw adam panteV apoqnhskousin outwV kai en tw cristw panteV zwopoihqhsontai
Word-by-Word	Even-as for in the Adam all are-dying thus and in the Christ all shall-be-being-made-to-live
Translation	For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life,
Aramaic v-a	For whereas through Adam all humanity died, likewise through Christ all of them shall Live.

Romans 11:26a
Greek Major.	και ουτως πας ισραηλ σωθησεται καθως γεγραπται ηξει εκ σιων...
Transliterated	kai outwV paV israhl swqhsetai kaqwV gegraptai hxei ek siwn...
word-by-word	and thus all Israel shall-be-being-saved according-as it-has-been-written shall-be-arriving out of-Zion...
Translation	and thus all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come out of Zion....
Aramaic v-a	And then all Israel Lives (saved), as it is written in Scriptures, "There shall come from Zion...

Psalms 14:3
Hebrew MT	.אֶחָד-גּם ,אֵין--טוֹב-עֹשֵׂה אֵין :נֶאֱלָחוּ יַחְדָּו ,סָר הַכֹּל
Transliterated	HKL SUr YChDV N'aLChV 'aYN 'yShH-TVB 'aYN GM-'aChD.
JPS Translat	They are all corrupt, they are together become impure; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Greek LXX	παντες εξεκλιναν αμα ηχρεωθησαν ουκ εστιν ποιων χρηστοτητα ουκ εστιν
LXX translat	All turned away, as well they became useless; there is no one practicing kindness; there is not even one.
Aramaic GL	They are all gone astray and have been rejected all together; there is none that does good; no, not one.
NAB	All have gone astray; all alike are perverse. Not one does what is right, not even one.

1 Timothy 6:10a
All Greek Texts	ριζα γαρ παντων των κακων εστιν η φιλαργυρια ης τινες ορεγομενοι απεπλανηθησαν απο της πιστεως και εαυτους
Transliterated	riza gar pantwn twn kakwn estin h filarguria hV tineV oregomenoi apeplanhqhsan apo thV pistewV kai eautouV
word-by-word	root of of-all of-the evils is the Love-of-Silver of-which any craving were-from-strayed from the belief and selves..
translation RSV	For the love of money is the root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and...
Aramaic v-a	For the root of every evil is the consideration for money above all else, and there are people who absolutely adore money, and they lose all faith and open themselves up to a multitude of demons.

πας (paV)--1) individually 1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything 2) collectively 2a) some of all types.

For some translations, such as the New Revised Standard Version in verses such as 1 Timothy 6:10 they will add that the love of money is the "root of all kinds of evil"

And they came to John and said to him, "Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, behold, He is baptizing and all (pantec) are coming to Him.--John 3:26 <---everyone one came to Him?

From that city many of the Samaritans believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, "He told me all the things (panta) that I have done."--John 4:39 <---absolutely all things shes ever done? wouldn't that take a LONG time? or does it mean MANY things

Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all (pac) the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them.--John 8:32 <---EVERYONE was at the temple or MANY were?

"Now there were devout Jews from every [pantoV] nation under heaven staying in Jerusalem...We are Parthians, Medes, and Elamites, inhabitants of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya near Cyrene, as well as travelers from Rome, both Jews and converts to Judaism, Cretans and Arabs, yet we hear them speaking in our own tongues of the mighty acts of God."--Acts 2:5,9-11 <---"every nation under heaven", yet we know there were not Jews in EVERY nation, and furthermore the verse after list only nations which are in the known world. Clearly here the word all/every means MANY.

"But when Cestius had marched from Antipatris to Lydda, he found the city empty of it's men. for the whole multitude were gone up to Jerusalem to the Feast of Tabernacles; yet he did destroy fifty of those that showed themselves..."--The Complete Works of Josephus, Jewish War: Book II: Chapter XIX, Paragraph 1, Lines (515-6) c. AD 72 *The commentary in the book for this line says it is proof that all and the whole does not necessarily mean every last person, here it says all the people went to Jerusalem, but later says 50 people did not go and were killed showing "the whole multitude" means "most," not literally all. This is a comtemporary writing of the New Testament.

Here are more verses that state man collectively and largely is sinners..

1 Kings 8:46--"When they sin against you (for there is no man who does not sin), and in your anger against them you deliver them to the enemy, so that their captors deport them to a hostile land, far or near,

Romans 3:10--As it is written: There is not any man just.**St Paul was quoting Psalms 14:3, he did not mean absolutely all were wicked

Ecclesiates 7:20--yet there is no man on earth so just as to do good and never sin.

Romans 5:12--Wherefore as by one man sin entered into this world, and by sin death; and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.**Was St Paul speaking as an absolute? If so, did St Enoch die? Did the Prophet Elijah die? Or could it be St Paul was speaking for humanity collectively? Which is obviously the case.

When St Paul and the bible says "ALL HAVE SINNED" it means humanity in general, the vast majority of human beings have sinned, collectively we all sinned, he did not say ABSOLUTELY all have sinned as infants don't sin, Christ has not sinned nor has this mother. If St Paul wanted to say absolutely all have sinned he would have said "all but Christ have sinned."

Sinlessness in Jewish Tradition

On the other hand, it is maintained that at least four persons—Benjamin, Amram, Jesse, and Chileab—died without having committed any sin and merely as the result of Adam's weakness in yielding to the temptation of the serpent. ---Jewish Encyclopedia on Sin, Original sin

again..
The Rabbis lay stress on the name, "beloved of the Lord," by which Benjamin is distinguished (Deut. xxxiii. 12; Sifre, l.c.). He is counted among the four men who died by the poison of the serpent in Paradise; i.e., without sin of his own, the other three being Amram, the father of Moses; Jesse, the father of David; and Kileab, the son of David (Shab. 55b).--Jewish Encyclopedia on Benjamin

SAID Rabbi Yissa: "Everyone on leaving the world goes57b-58a into the presence of Adam so that they may learn that not his, but their own sins and wrong-doing have caused their death. Amongst myriads of those that have lived and died, only three have there been whose decease was not owing to sin, but was brought about by the malicious designs of the serpent, namely, Amram, Levi and Benjamin, and also Jesse, who committed no sin worthy of death. Observe that all the antediluvians sinned openly and unblushingly."-- Zohar: Bereshith to Lekh Lekha p244

Four have died in consequence of the seduction of the serpent:--Benjamin, the son of Jacob; Amram, the father of Moses; Jesse, the father of David; and Chileab, the son of David.--Shabbath fol. 55, col. 2.

Seven patriarchs are resting in glory, and worm and maggot do not affect their earthly remains, and they are: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, Amram their father, and, according to others, also David, as it is written [ibid. xvi. 9]: "Therefore is rejoiced my heart,and my spirit is glad; also my flesh shall rest in safety."-- BABYLONIAN TALMUD

As for Amram, not only did he belong to the tribe of Levi, distinguished for its piety, but by reason of his extraordinary piety he was prominent even among the pious of the tribe. He was one of the four who were immaculate, untainted by sin, over whom death would have had no power, had mortality not been decreed against every single human being on account of the fall of the first man and woman. The other three that led the same sinless life were Benjamin, Jesse the father of David, and Chileab the son of David. If the Shekinah was drawn close again to the dwelling-place of mortals, it was due to Amram's piety. Originally the real residence of the Shekinah was among men, but when Adam committed his sin, she withdrew to heaven, at first to the lowest of the seven heavens. Thence she was banished by Cain's crime, and she retired to the second heaven.-- Ch 4 The Legends of the Jews Moses in Eygpt or here texts.com/jud/t05/ere11.htm

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And also Job was almost sinless, but Job 2:10 some take that eventually may have sinned in his heart. Nonetheless scripture does call JOB righteous, which means that Psalms, St Paul etc.. were not applying the lack of righteousness to every human being.

Job 1:1--In the land of Uz there was a blameless and upright man named Job, who feared God and avoided evil.

Job 1:22--In all this Job did not sin, nor did he say anything disrespectful of God.

And The LORD God called Noah a just man

Genesis 6:8-9--But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord. These are the generations of Noah, Noah was a righteous man he was perfect in his generations; Noah walked with God.

Genesis 7:1--And the Lord said to Noah, "Come into the ark, you and all your household, for it is you that I have seen as a righteous man before Me in this generation."

Proofs of Mary's Holiness from Scripture

Luke 1:28--And the angel being come in, said unto her, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women." (DRB)

Luke 1:41-2--Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.[see Deut 28:4] (NAB)

Deutronomy 27:26; 28:1-2,4--- Cursed be he who does not uphold the words of this Torah, to fulfill them. And all the people shall say, 'Amen!' And it will be if you obey the Lord, your God, to observe to fulfill all His commandments which I command you this day, the Lord, your God, will place you supreme above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings will come upon you and cleave to you, if you obey the Lord, your God.... Blessed will be the fruit of your womb, the fruit of your soil, the fruit of your livestock, the offspring of your cattle, and the flocks of your sheep. (Chabad) [Keeping the commandments is rewarded with a blessing, which includes...blessed be the fruit of thy womb..]

Luke 11:27-8--"While he was speaking, a woman from the crowd called out and said to him, "Blessed is the womb that carried you and the breasts at which you nursed." He replied, "*Rather, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.""*Heretical readings of this will believe Jesus is denying honor to Mary and her blessedness, this is not the case since Luke 1 calls Mary blessed among women, and Mary says "all generations will call me blessed," the misinterpretation stems from the misunderstanding of the word rather which when translated careful is rendered "indeed then" which is found in the interlinear of Luke 11 at this site: http://www.scripture4all.org/

Judges 13:3-4--And an angel of the Lord appeared to the woman, and said to her, "Behold now, you are barren, and have not borne; and you shall conceive and bear a son. Consequently, beware now, and ** do not drink wine or strong drink, and do not eat any unclean thing. Because you shall conceive, and bear a son; and a razor shall not come upon his head, for a Nazirite to God shall the lad be from the womb; and he will begin to save Israel from the hand of the Philistines." (chabad) [notice that while she is not the Nazir, a consecrated man, prior to the conception she had to follow the Nazir vows since her son was to be a life long Nazir. A Nazir is a person that is to be holy, set aside, and this showed she had to take this acts of holiness, similarly Elizabeth, was already called blamess, may have had to do with The Prophet John, but the Blessed Virigin was already full of grace before her pregnancy with Lord Jesus]

Ezekiel 44:19--"When they are to go out to the people in the outer court, they shall take off the garments in which they ministered and leave them in the chambers of the sanctuary, putting on other garments; thus they will not transmit holiness to the people with their garments."(NAB)
or
"they shall put off their garments wherein they minister and place them in chambers belonging to the Sanctuary and clothe themselves with other garments, and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments." (chabad)

Mark 5:27-29,34--She had heard about Jesus and came up behind him in the crowd and touched His cloak. She said, "If I but touch his clothes, I shall be cured." Immediately her flow of blood dried up. She felt in her body that she was healed of her affliction.... He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has saved you. Go in peace and be cured of your affliction."

Question: If the you can be healed by touching a cloak, (or bones of a saint in the OT) or receieve holiness from the cloak of a priest in Ezekiel, How much holier is Mary because she has kept the Law, was Full of Grace, before and after bearing the Lord God, the Lord was with her both physically and spiritually??

Though Mary was sinless and did concieve Christ through a virgin birth and did not transmit sin to Christ, the Immaculate Conception is Mary, and it means preserved from Original Sin. The Justification for this is that the Blessed Virgin is the Ark of New Covenant because Christ dwelt in her and still does because she is a saint. The Ark of the Old Coveant was where the word of God rested, because it held the Ten Commandments. The Ark of the New Coveant holds the Incarnate Word. YHWH ordered Moses in the Old Testament to make an Ark of "incorruptible" wood. Acacia wood is designated, "incorruptible wood", in the Septuagint, and lignum setim, "setim-wood" in the Vulgate.

Exodus 25:10-11--"And thou shalt make the ark of testimony of incorruptible wood And thou shalt gild it with pure gold, thou shalt gild it within and without; and thou shalt make for it golden wreaths twisted round about."--Brenton LXX

Deutronomy 10:3: "Thou shalt make an ark of incorruptible wood"- LXX

Revelation 11:19: "Then God's temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm."

The the next sentence read: (remember the original bible did not have paragraphs or even periods)

Revelation 12:1: "A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars."

Revelation 12 is a place where the woman stands for both the Virgin Mary because she DID give birth to Christ and at the same time it can be applied to the Church. Mary is seen at a queen in this verse with an elaborate dress and with a 'crown,' notice in the Bible a Queen was the mother of the King and the King's mother is named.. (1 Samuel 2:19, Jeremiah 13:18, 1 Kings 14:21/15:2/22:2/, 2 Kings 8:26/14:1/15:2/18:2/21:2/22:2/23:31) And the Twelve Stars on her crown can be representative of the Twelve tribes, but even more the Twelve Apostles, because she was given to the Church when Christ gave her to St John on the Cross. The Gospel says::

"When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son. "Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home." -John 19:26-27 (New American Bible)

Here we see Mary and John being obedient to Jesus' commandment. John was the Apostle that Jesus "loved," and Mary is His Mother who was and is "full of grace" and keep His commandments:

Luke 1:28 "Hail, *full of grace"

- the Greek word is kecharitomene, which St Jerome translated as "gracia plena," (full of grace) which is probably the best translation but it does not give the full meaning. Other translations of the word make it come out as "gifted with grace," or "transformed by grace."The word is called a perfect-passive-participle, meaning when the Angel Gabriel told Mary she was full of grace he meant, a)She had grace and b) She has grace and c) She will continue to have grace in the future. Charis the root means grace. Many Protestant bibles seeking to downgrade the meaning of the word (even the New American Bible) to simply "highly favored". Also many decide to omit "blessed art thou among women," and only have it in 1:4.2

Luke 1:28

And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. -Douai Rheims Version

And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."- New American Bible

He went in and said to her, 'Rejoice, you who enjoy God's favor! The Lord is with you.' - New Jerusalem Bible

And he came to her and said, "Hail, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"- Revised Standard Version

And he came to her and said, ‘Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you.’- New Revised Standard Version

The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.- New Internation Version

And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.- King James Version

"Hail thou, endued with grace"- Alternate translation in margin of the original KJV

And having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, highly favored [one,] the Lord [is] with you; blessed [are] you among women!"- New King James Version

And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you." - New American Standard Version

The angel greeted her and said, "The Lord has given you special favor. He is with you."- New internation Reader's Versions

Upon entering, Gabriel greeted her: Good morning! You're beautiful with God's beauty, Beautiful inside and out! God be with you.- The Messege Bible

And the angel came in to her, and said, Hail, thou favoured one! the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou amongst women.- Darby Bible

Having come in, the angel said to her, "Rejoice, you highly favored one! The Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women!"- Hebrew Names Bible

And the angel came to her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favored, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.- Noah Webster Bible

Church Fathers:

"[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course that was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied, "Be it done unto me according to your word" [Luke 1:38]" (Dialogue with Trypho 100 [A.D. 155]).

Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, "Behold, 0 Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word." Eve . . . who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband — for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children . . . having become disobedient [sin], was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient [no sin], was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith--St Irenaeus Against Heresies 3:22:24 (A.D. 189)

"He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption."—St Hippolytus, Orat. Inillud, Dominus pascit me (ante A.D. 235), in ULL,94

"This Virgin Mother of the Only-begotten of God, is called Mary, worthy of God, immaculate of the immaculate, one of the one."—Origen, Homily 1(A.D. 244), in ULL,94

"Let woman praise Her, the pure Mary."—St Ephraem (Ephraim/Ephrem), Hymns on the Nativity, 15:23 (A.D. 370), in NPNF2, XIII:254

"Thou alone and thy Mother are in all things fair, there is no flaw in thee and no stain in thy Mother."—St Ephraem (Ephraim, Ephrem) Nisibene Hymns, 27:8 (A.D. 370), in THEO,132

"The virgin earth gave birth to that Adam, head of the earth, today the Virgin gave birth to Adam, head of Heaven"--St Ephraim the Syrian

"Just as, because the bodies which themselves have sinned, themselves must also die. and the earth their mother was cursed, so because of this body, because it is itself the church, which is not corrupted, the earth was blessed from the beginning. For the earth is the body of Mary, the temple which receieved the seed...Because of the first mother who was cursed, the second mother was expressly named blessed"--St Ephraim the Syrian EC Arm 4, 15 (CSCI 137, Arm 1, pp.55-6)

Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a Virgin not only undefiled but a Virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin—St Ambrose, Sermon 22:30, Commentary on Psalm 118:22-30 (A.D. 388), in JUR, II:166

"He was conceived by the virgin, who had been first purified by the Spirit in soul and body; for, as it was fitting that childbearing should receive its share of honor, so it was necessary that virginity should receive even greater honor"--St Gregory Nazianzen Sermon 38 d. A.D. 390

"We must except the Holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom I wish to raise no question when it touches the subject of sins, out of honor to the Lord; for from Him we know what abundance of grace for overcoming sin in every particular was conferred upon her who had the merit to conceive and bear Him who undoubtedly had no sin."—St Augustine, Nature and Grace, 42[36] (A.D.415), in NPNF1,V:135 *here St Augustine leaves open the possiblity for the BVM to be the Immaculate Conception, since according to him all born of flesh had original sin, except Jesus.

"As he formed her without my stain of her own, so He proceeded from her contracting no stain."—Proclus of Constantinople, Homily 1(ante A.D. 446),in ULL,97

"A virgin, innocent, spotless, free of all defect, untouched, unsullied, holy in soul and body, like a lily sprouting among thorns."—Theodotus of Ancrya,Homily VI:11(ante A.D. 446),in THEO,339

"The angel took not the Virgin from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged from Joseph, but gave her to Christ, to whom she was pledged in the womb, when she was made."—St Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140(A.D. 449),in ULL,97

"[T]he very fact that God has elected her proves that none was ever holier than Mary, if any stain had disfigured her soul, if any other virgin had been purer and holier, God would have selected her and rejected Mary."—St Jacob (James)of Sarug (ante A.D. 521),in CE

"She (Mary) formed part of the human race and was of the same essence as we, although she was pure from all taint and immaculate."—St Severus, bishop of Antioch, c.AD 530

"Then the tribes of Israel heard that Anna had conceived the immaculate one. So everyone took part in the rejoicing. Joachim gave a banquet, and great was the merriment in the garden. He invited the priests and Levites to prayer; then he called Mary into the center of the crowd, that she might be magnified"--Romanos the Melodist, On the Birth of Mary 1, (c.A.D. 560)

"She is born like the cherubim, she who is of a pure, immaculate clay"—Theotoknos of Livias, Panegyric for the feast of the Assumption, 5:6(ante A.D. 650),in THEO,180

"Today humanity, in all the radiance of her immaculate nobility, receives its ancient beauty. The shame of sin had darkened the splendor and attraction of human nature; but when the Mother of the Fair One par excellence is born, this nature regains in her person its ancient privileges and is fashioned according to a perfect model truly worthy of God.... The reform of our nature begins today and the aged world, subjected to a wholly divine transformation, receives the first fruits of the second creation"—St Andrew of Crete, Sermon I, On the Birth of Mary (A.D. 733), in THEO,180

"from all nature this pure and entirely Immaculate Virgin."—St Andrew of Crete c.AD 730

"[T]ruly elect, and superior to all, not by the altitude of lofty structures, but as excelling all in the greatness and purity of sublime and divine virtues, and having no affinity with sin whatever."—Germanus of Constantinople, Marracci in S. Germani Mariali (ante A.D. 733), in ULL,98

"O most blessed loins of Joachim from which came forth a spotless seed! O glorious womb of Anne in which a most holy offspring grew and was formed, silently increasing! O womb in which was conceived the living heaven, wider than the wideness of the heavens."—St John of Damascus, Homily I in Nativ. (ante A.D. 749),in THEO,200

“Your immaculate body, which was preserved from all stain of sin, did not remain on the earth."—St John of Damascus c. AD 740

“He who was incarnate of the immaculate Mother of God and Ever-Virgin Mary has two natures”—Council of Nicaea II

Concerning the immaculate conception and other rites and parts of the Church, it can be found in Greek and Oriental Traditions. Even in Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Church the immaculate conception was taught previously, though it is largely rejected by them. The current Oriential Orthodox that is the Coptic Orthodox Church, Pope Shenuado, rejects the dogma as heretical, and many Eastern Orthodox theologians do too. The Ethiopian Orthodox traditionally has been subjected to the Pope/Patriarch of Alexandria, though recently, in the last centuty, gained autocephalousy at the urges of His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, while still being loyal to the Pope of Alexandria. The Ethiopian Church which under the Coptic Church has a book outlining the history of Ethiopia and Christianity which is entitled "The Queen of Sheba and Her Only Son Menyelek [Menelik] (I)" or, "The Kebra Nagast," which has been dated to the latest as the 1200s, while others trace it earlier, regardless it is established as Ethiopian tradition and was promoted by the great Emperor His Imperial Majesty Haile Selassie I and this book includes a passage which establishes the immaculate conception it goes as follows:

"He cleansed EVE'S body and sanctified it and made for it a dwelling in her for ADAM'S salvation. She [i.e., MARY] was born without blemish, for He made her pure, without pollution, and she redeemed his debt without carnal union and embrace. She brought forth in heavenly flesh a King, and He was born of her, and He renewed his life in the purity of His body. And He slew death with His pure body, and He rose without corruption, and He hath raised us up with Him to immortality, the throne of divinity, and He hath raised us up to Him, and we have exchanged life in our mortal body and found the life which is immortal. Through the seduction of ADAM we suffered affliction, and by the patient endurance of CHRIST we are healed. Through the transgression of EVE we died and were buried, and by the purity of MARY we receive honour, and are exalted to the heights."--Kebra Nagast, Chapter 96:Concerning the Prophecy about CHRIST

In Eastern Orthodox at a time many believed in the Immaculate Conception of Mary, that is prior to AD 1667, and is still beleived by certain groups of the Russian Old Believers. Here is an Eastern Catholic who, was Eastern Orthodox, writing about the Immaculate Conception and how it was previously believed in the Orthodox Church. He in his article cite texts and sources like...:

"Unitas reports that the Russian Orthodox Church Holy Synod of 1666 approved Simeon Polatski's Zezl Pravlenia (Rod of Direction) wherein it states textually: "Mary was exempt from original sin beginning with her conception" (see Zezl Pravlenia, Part I, ans 10). But in 1667, the Synod approved the Skirzhal."

and

"We also discover in this book that the Matins for the Feast of the Conception of the Theotokos by St Anne says, "This day, O faithful, from saintly parents begins to take being the spotless lamb, the most pure tabernacle, Mary". Kucharek states, "We should not forget that Eastern theologians took St Thomas Aquinas to task on this issue. Two of his most ardent disciples among the Greek's strongly disagreed with him on this point...Thomas Aquinas' failure to admit the Immaculate Conception of the Mother of God!" (Demetrios Kydonios, 14th century translater of Aquinas' works into Greek and eventually entered the Catholic Church, and Georgios Scholarios, 15th century defender of the Immaculate Conception. Scholarios, who voted for union at the Council of Florence, later became Patriarch Gennadios of Constantinople after it had fallen to the Turks). "

and

"A large breakaway group, the Russian Old Believers (or Old Ritualists), calling themselves Starovery (preservers of the Old Beliefs), rejected the changes of doctrine & customs instituted by then-Patriarch Nikon and the 1666-1667 Russian Orthodox Holy Synod. They became terribly persecuted by the Czar and the Russian Orthodox Church. Unitas reports that the Old Believers eventually established a separate episcopal see in Bukovina at Bela Krinitza, and refers to the professor Soubbotine who wrote the history of this diocese in 1874. Soubbotine cites a passage from the profession of faith made by the Old Believers which reads: "The Mother of the Creator of the whole universe, not only has in no way participated in the original stain, but she remained as pure as the heavens and all beautiful". (M. Soubbotine, History of the Hierarchy of Bela Krinitza, Moscow, Vol I, pg XLII, in Russian - as quoted in the Jul-Sep 1949 Unitas periodical from the Graymore Franciscan Friars of the Atonement, said magazine now defunct, but a copy supplied to me by Mr James Likoudis, President Emeritus of "Catholics United for the Faith". The above paragraph comes from the Unitas Periodical)."

and

St Sophronius of Jerusalem (c 556-638, Patriarch of Jerusalem from 634-638): "Many Saints appeared before you, but none was filled with grace as you; no one has been purified in advance as you have been."

etc...

Objections to the immaculate conception by non Catholics:

Objection: "Original sin caused birth pain, Revelation according to Catholic understanding the woman is Mary, and Mary there is having birth pangs, therefore Mary had original sin."

Answer: 1/ Birth pain in Revelation 12:2 is not literal birth pains , here the text uses a Greek word wdinousa which does not necessarily refer to actual birth pains, so these pains are symbolic, that is the Messainic woes, birthing pains etc. One Lexicon states:

from wdin - odin 5604; to experience the pains of parturition (literally or figuratively):--travail in (birth).

St Paul in Galatians states St Paul himself had "birth pains":

"My children, for whom I am again in labor ( wdino ) until Christ be formed in you!"--Galatians 4:19

The same word and same "labor pains" is used in..

Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there will be famines and earthquakes from place to place. All these are the beginning of the labor pains.--Matthew 24:7-8

Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes from place to place and there will be famines. These are the beginnings of the labor pains.--Mark 13:8

We know that all creation is groaning in labor pains even until now;--Romans 8:22

For it is written: "Rejoice, you barren one who bore no children; break forth and shout, you who were not in labor; for more numerous are the children of the deserted one than of her who has a husband."--Galatians 4:27 (this is Jerusalem)

The word is also used in:

But God raised him up, releasing him from the throes of death, because it was impossible for him to be held by it.--Acts 2:24

When people are saying, "Peace and security," then sudden disaster comes upon them, like labor pains upon a pregnant [woman],and they will not escape.--1 Thessolonians 5:3

Here are verses using a DIFFERENT word for pains in child birth used elsewhere

When a woman is in labor, she is in anguish ( luphn ) because her hour has arrived; but when she has given birth to a child, she no longer remembers the pain ( qliyewV ) because of her joy that a child has been born into the world.--John 16:21

Then they departed from Bethel; but while they still had some distance to go on the way to Ephrath, Rachel began to be in labor ( ( εδυστοκησεν ) and to suffer great distress. When her pangs were most severe ( σκληρως αυτην ), her midwife said to her, "Have no fear! This time, too, you have a son."--Genesis 35:16-17

Some suggest Mary suffered different pains when giving birth, that is Luke 2:7, since it implies she gave birth with no help and with no place to go.

The following is a taken from the website pugiofidei.com, owned by Ben Douglass, it is one of the earliest interpretations known to identify Mary as the woman of Revelation 12, and furthermore explains why the woman of Isaiah 66:7 is said to give birth painlessly, while Revelation 12:2 suggests birth in pain. The exegete explain Mary gave birth without pain.

"The incarnation of the Lord, by which the world was subjected and made his own, became the occasion for the raising [of the Antichrist] and the endeavors of Satan. For this is why the Antichrist will be raised up: so that he may again cause the world to revolt against Christ, and persuade it to turn around and desert to Satan. Since again the Lord's physical conception and birth marked the beginning of his incarnation, the vision has brought into some order and sequence the events which it is going to explain, by starting its explanation from the physical conception of Christ, and by depicting for us the Mother of God. For why does he say, And a portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet? He is speaking of the mother of our Savior, as I have said. Naturally the vision describes her as being in heaven and not on earth, as pure in soul and body, as equal to an angel, as a citizen of heaven, as one who came to effect the incarnation of God who dwells in heaven ("for," he says, "heaven is my throne" [Isa 66:1]), and as one who has nothing in common with the world and the evils in it, but wholly sublime, wholly worthy of heaven, even through she sprang from our mortal nature and being. For the Virgin is of the same substance as we are. The unholy doctrine of Eutyches, that the Virgin is of a miraculously different substance from us, together with his other docetic doctrines, must be banished from the divine courts.

What is the meaning of the saying that she is clothed with the sun, and has the moon under her feet? ...[I]n order to show in the vision that even when the Lord was conceived, he was the protector of his own mother and of all creation, the vision said that he clothed the woman. In the same way the divine angel said to the holy Virgin, "The Spirit of the Lord will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you" (Luke 1:35). Overshadowing, protecting, and clothing all have the same meaning.

He says, And on her head, a crown of twelve stars. For the Virgin is crowned with the twelve apostles who proclaim the Christ while she is proclaimed together with him. He says, She was with child, and she cried out in her birth-pangs, in anguish for delivery. Yet Isaiah says about her, "before the woman in labor gives birth, and before the toil of labor begins, she fled and brought forth a male child" (Isa 66:7). Gregory [of Nyssa], also, in the thirteenth chapter of his Interpretation of the Song of Songs talks of the Lord "whose conception is without intercourse, and whose birth is undefiled." So the birth was free from pain. Therefore, if, according to such a great prophet and the teacher of the church, the Virgin has escaped the pain of childbirth, how does she here cry out in her birth-pangs, in anguish for delivery? Does this not contradict what was said? Certainly not. For nothing could be contradictory in the mouth of the one and the same Spirit, who spoke through both. But in the present passage you should understand the crying out and being in anguish in this way: until the divine angel told Joseph about her, that the conception was from the Holy Spirit, the Virgin was naturally despondent, blushing before her betrothed, and thinking that he might somehow suspect that she was in labor from a furtive marriage. Her despondency and grief he called, according to the principles of metaphor, crying and anguish; and this is not surprising. For even when blessed Moses spiritually met God and was losing heart--for he saw Israel in the desert being encircled by the sea and by enemies--God said to him, "Why do you cry to me?" (Ex 14:15) So also now the vision calls the sorrowful disposition of the Virgin's mind and heart "crying out." But you, who took away the despondency of the undefiled handmaid and your human mother, my lady mistress, the holy Mother of God, by your ineffable birth, do away with my sins, too, for to you is due glory for ever. Amen."--Oecumenius, Commentary on the Apocalypse, trans. John H. Suggit [Washington, D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 2006] pp. 107-109. 6th Century AD.

The following ancient texts verify explicitly Mary, the Blessed Virgin did not give birth in pain:

Here is proof for the meaning of the Greek word in Revelation 12:2 (see But what about the pain in Childbirth? Doesn’t that disprove that it is Mary? )

This site provides more proofs for the painless birth

'Some said: "The Virgin Mary hath borne a child, before she was married two months." And many said: "She has not borne a child, nor has a midwife gone up (to her), nor have we heard the cries of (labour) pains." And they were all blinded respecting Him and they all knew regarding Him, though they knew not whence He was.'--Ascension of Isaiah 11:13-14 (1st Century writing)

'The womb of the Virgin took it, and she received conception and gave birth. So the Virgin became a mother with great mercies. And she labored and bore the Son but without pain, because it did not occur without purpose.And she did not require a midwife, because He caused her to give life.'--Odes of Solomon 19:6-8 (though this is a very bizzare work due to its taking from Jewish Mysticism, such as the Shekinah, the Holy Spirit in the feminine, though some Syrian Fathers held this, it still conveys the B.V. Mary as giving birth without pain) (written within the first 3 centuries, some believe its the oldest referance eg Father Murray "Symbols of Keys and Kingdom p. 316)

"Of Him then His mother's burden was light, the birth immaculate, the delivery without pain, the nativity without defilement, neither beginning from wanton desire, nor brought to pass with sorrow. For as she who by her guilt engrafted death into our nature, was condemned to bring forth in trouble, it was meet that she who brought life into the world should accomplish her delivery with joy."--St Gregory of Nyssa, Homily on the Nativity AD 388

"The gloomy descent to hell was not for her, but a joyous, easy, and sweet passage to heaven. If, as Christ, the Life and the Truth says: "Wherever I am, there is also my minister," how much more shall not His mother be with Him? She brought Him forth without pain, and her death, also, was painless........It was fitting that she who saw her Son die on the cross, and received in her heart the sword of pain which she had not felt in childbirth, should gaze upon Him seated next to the Father."--St. John Damascene, Second Homily on the Dormition of the Mother of God c.AD 740

"So far as He was born of woman, His birth was in accordance with the laws of parturition, while so far as He had no father, His birth was above the nature of generation: and in that it was at the usual time (for He was born on the completion of the ninth month when the tenth was just beginning), His birth was in accordance with the laws of parturition, while in that it was painless it was above the laws of generation. For, as pleasure did not precede it, pain did not follow it, according to the prophet who says, Before she travailed, she brought forth, and again, before her pain came she was delivered of a man-child [Isaiah 66:7]. The Son of God incarnate, therefore, was born of her, not a divinely-inspired man but God incarnate.... But just as He who was conceived kept her who conceived still virgin, in like manner also He who was born preserved her virginity intact, only passing through her and keeping her closed [Ezekiel 44:2]."--St. John Damascene, On the Orthodox Faith, IV, 14

"For there are no pangs in the case of a virgin that man has not known: the name of virginity and the name of birth pangs cannot be true together; yet just as a Child is born to us without a father, thus also a Son is given tous without pangs ; and where there was no desire at the beginning, neither are there any pangs at the end. And just as the Virgin did not know how that holy body was formed within the womb, thus neither in His birth did she feel pains. And Prophecy bears witness about this, saying, "Before the pains of labour came, she was delivered, and brought forth a man child;" [Isaiah 66:7] and just as that woman, who was the mother of Sin, and of this dying world, brought forth in sorrows and pains, it was right that this [woman] also, who was the Mother of Life, and of the Virgin Son, who was Father of the future, that is, of a virgin world, should begin with joy in conception, and finish with joy in birth ; for there is nothing that pollutes, where God is."--Isho'dad of Merv who uses St Ephrem the Syrian, Commentary on the Diatessaron (the four fold gospel), schismatic Nestorian of the Church of the East, (from Mosul, Afganistan) p.42 c.AD 850

Some people argue that this cannot be Christ because it refers to a "nation" in Isaiah 66:8, however these people are ignorant that Christ seemes to be called Israel, since "When Israel was a child I loved him, out of Egypt I called my son" (Hosea 11:1) is applied to Christ in Matthew 2:15.

Some Syrian Fathers argued she could not have gave birth in pain since she did not have sex, future popes and theologians would agree.

2/ Scripture does not necessarily say original sin caused birth pain, but rather Genesis 3:16 says "increased" or "multiplied" birth pangs. This may imply there was some pain, prior. 3/ This women is not solely Mary in Catholic understanding, it is the Church also. Mary is the prefigurement of the Church and many times they are interchangable. 4/ Mary suffered pains at the cross watching her Son die.