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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> And why should anyone believe you? Because it is human tradition to hear the pent up thoughts that ex members finally get around to voicing, once the ex staffers are free to exercise their normal human rights to discuss their lives, and discuss what they did and saw in their lives. > You are an anti-Scientology fanatic and a member of "Anonymous",
Your attack propaganda proves my point, you engage in exactly what is offensive about Scientology, whether you are acting on your own or in concert with some Scientology staffers or volunteers who are spreading the "dirty propaganda" on anonymous for Scientology's supposed protection. You are doing this Hubbard policy: "OFFICE OF SPECIAL AFFAIRS NETWORK ORDER 15, 18 February 1988 Confidential BLACK PROPAGANDA …. Our propaganda is dirty.... We do this trick by survey and attack.... we become re-classified as attackers and the enemy as bad hats …... We just run propaganda campaigns....It reclassifies our attackers as evil people... Achieve for ourselves a dominance in classifying ourselves and others." "L. RON HUBBARD, … official Church policy." > Has it ever occorred to you that no one gives a shit what you
Ah, it seems every time someone says what you said above, I get about a dozen emails and out of the blue phone calls telling me they do indeed appreciate me speaking out! So no, you are in the minority of people who have at least the courage to speak to me publicly either on the phone or by email. > That you should simply mind your own business and get a life? Ex members have the most detailed inside understanding of the movement. Ex members' views are thus excellent sources of the history, so that people investigating Scientology can connect the dots on the things official Scientology is hiding from the public. For instance the disgraceful "ethics gradients" that Scientology leader David Miscavige perpetrated on top ranking staff. Here's a photo of Jeff Hawkins, at the Portland anonymous protest, and Jeff has gone on radio detailing several of the physical beatings David Miscavige gave him. http://www.dropthebomb.info/protest1/IMG_0134.jpg Here's the link to the radio interview, and any legitimate media wishing to interview Jeff can contact him easily. http://tinyurl.com/4nzpce Jeff ain't lying, and other people will go on record confirming seeing David Miscavige beat up Jeff Hawkins! Marc Headley seperately discusses the beating from David Miscavige that Marc received: http://tinyurl.com/6mufhm That's not right behavior for a superior to beat up on subordinates in ANY organization, let alone the "established cult" of Scientology. > If I was a member of the Church of Scientology, that's what I'd
Your perogative. Media are awash with ex members speaking firsthand stories about disgraceful moments in their Scientology experiences. The Scientology movement, official movement, needs to evolve into the more positive atmosphere that exists in the freezone, and ALL these Scientology practitioners need to NOT be messing with people who need real mental health treatment! > Go run your own lives. And you certainly need to do some serious
Well, I'd recommend two things: 1) International amnesty, as that would handle the family upsets!
> No one forces anyone to join the Church of Scientology. Anyone
True, but the consequences of anyone openly discussing "body thetans" and the "Xenu holocaust" and anyone openly calling David Miscavige a bad leader, will have dramatic consequences. Official Scientology is NOT free! It is authoritarian! > If you don't like that lifestyle, then don't be a part of it. Agreed. > You are just a typical American facist who thinks he has a
You have intentionally or inadvertently just engaged in the L. Ron Hubbard tactics listed in OSA Network Order 15 again, see the quote above about calling me the name that is agreed upon known bad, just to re-classify me. When in fact, a comparison of official Scientology to the freezone Scientology shows official Scientology to be more "fascistic" by FAR compared to the freezone Scientology. So, your statement above is OSA Network Order 15 tactics, Hubbard's tactics, straight and simple. "...our propaganda is dirty..." L. Ron Hubbard "... We just run propaganda campaigns...." L. Ron Hubbard "...It reclassifies our attackers as evil people..." L. Ron Hubbard "...Achieve for ourselves a dominance in classifying ourselves and others." L. Ron Hubard > I donate a LOT of money to the Church of Scientology. > Not because I particularly like it, but because of assholes
Great. In time, they will reform. If somehow the official movement can take on the tone of tolerance and normalcy that the freezone Scientology movement has already taken, well, I think that that is inevitable longer range no matter what, no matter what back and forth discussion goes on. I've firsthand observed the movement slowly reforming anyways. The next two big cracks of reform that official Scientology will be relating to the "Body thetans" and "Xenu holocaust" free discussion by its members, and then hopefully sooner than later, a big International Amnesty. Those two things would cause just PERMANENT good PR for Scientology! If I ran the movement, that's what I'd do! Scientology is loaded with good people, stuck rigidly with a system that penalizes them for being normal citizens and speaking frankly and honestly about their "confidential" theology. I agree they are small time, and getting smaller. > If you don't like it, fuck yourself, you stinking bigot. Why the foul language? It is not good to have sympathizers of Scientology acting so disgracefully. > And you can take this to the bank: I don't believe anything
> Tom Your perogative. At least you are free to speak so freely. Inside the movement, had David Miscavige slapped you to the floor, you wouldn't be able to say harsh words to him! You'd be history, and shown the door. In Scientology, the members are not allowed to harshly publicly criticize their founder (Hubbbard) or the principle figures (like Miscavige, their leader). The Hubbard rules keep internal dissent down. > --
Chuck Beatty
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Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
> Take a poll here. Start a post entitled "Anyone here give a shit what
I do.
I hope Monica writes more chapter like discussions, and links them
from time to time here on ARS.
I like ARS because it is so free.
Anyone can post here, I like ARS the best of all forums.
I could care less who hates whom for whatever valid reasons.
Hubbard's operation Scientology is the subject.
Anyone with relevant history is okay by me!
And I hope other people are inspired to delve into the Hubbard pile of
writings, someday, to really lay it all to rest.
The Hubbard "con" is an extensive pile of stuff.
I think it will take sort of a mixture of an outside writer/author and
a Danny Sherman (insider), and someone who's worked a decade or so in
OSA going back to the GO days, to really do a whole new expose of the
mess of Hubbard's writings.
Jeff Hawkins' blog is excellent.
We need some former OSA/GO wordsmith type quality vet coming out and
touching on the whole sorry Hubbard insider doctrinal mess of
writings, to come out and reinvigorate the whole Hubbard fascade.
I contest still, NO ONE, has gone through the OEC volumes, inlcuding
the management series, and also who's read the behind the scenes
"orders" ("advices") of Hubbard's last years, the ASI advices, the
"Int" base advices, and miscellaneous advices, there ARE a few
potential defectors in the midst of the movement, the people working
with Danny Sherman, the OSA people, possibly Farney.
One of Monica's contemporaries from the Apollo days, Roger Strauss,
got out, went back to college in sociology, and wrote.
I think MORE discourse along the lines of outside world already
established saner ideas, and back comparing to Hubbard's trove of
writings, WILL finally un-whump the undereducated people who are lured
into Scientology (I admit to being one of dupes who turned into a dupe
trainer).
More good writing laying out Scientology/Hubbard's flaws, the core
faults, that are unarguable, and those thoughts spread until they are
common knowledge, will lay Scientology to rest.
It's a battle of ideas.
I think the battle of personalities is inevitable human nature, while
the battle of ideas carries on.
I wish Monica were more a Roger Strauss though, and she just linked
her papers and wrote some books, and linked her writings here.
I appreciate anyone's discussion of the Hubbard mess.
Chuck
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
On Jun 30, 3:07 pm, Fishdaddy > On Jun 30, 11:59 am, Out_Of_The_Dark > > On Jun 30, 2:49 pm, Fishdaddy > > > On Jun 29, 1:56 pm, Tom N > > > > On 2008-06-29, in <3361d$4867e2e4$d15a8ed5$12...@PRIMUS.CA>
> > > > Android Cat > > > > >http://counterfeitdreams.blogspot.com/2008/04/chapter-one-going
> > > > Yes. "Powerful writing". Words. The specialty of 'Anonymous' and
> > > > And most of those words are lies.
> > > > He claims that life was incredibly miserable where he was and
> > > > Why hasn't he filed criminal charges or a civil law suit?
> > > > Because others won't come forward and back up his story, that's
> > > > In-other-words, he's lying.
> > > > He's affililated with 'Anonymous' and its allies, all rabid
> > > > They would not tolerate anything else.
> > > > His title, "Counterfeit Dreams" refers to the book, not
> > > > It is a Freudian Slip.
> > > > He can't substantiate anything he says.
> > > > It's just more vicious gossip from a hate-mongering bigot.
> > > > One who hopes to cash in on hatred and bigotry, I'd
> > > > Tom Newton
> > > > --
> > > Hey, "Tom Newton"
> > > Wait a minute! I'm supposed to be the SP here! I'm supposed to be the
> > > My blog, my radio interviews, my posts on OCMB, all give exact time,
> > > Your response: "he's a liar and a hate-mongering bigot." In other
> > > Let's get down to a few specifics here. You know my real name. What's
> > > You know where I've worked. At the Int Base. For 15 years. What's your
> > > I'd be more impressed with you if you used a real name, like, say,
> > > And, just for the record, the name "Counterfeit Dreams" refers to my
> > > You want to "discredit" me? Good, stand up, give your real name, your
> > > Come on, I'm the SP here. Dishing out generalities is supposed to be
> > > Jeff-
> > He does this to anyone of merit here, Jeff. His real name is Alan
> > Mary McConnell
> Thanks Mary. Good to know he actually has a real name. And I'll take
> Jeff
Hey Jeff,
I dared Tom Newton (shore story is he's a "neighbor of a Scientologist
and they're terrific people" (which I don't doubt the Scientologists
are good people) and Tom's a proponent of out of the body travel),
to phone me.
I wanted to ask him about his shore story, since I think he's just all
made up conveniently and for plausible deniability purposes, the
Guardian's Office/OSA (Hubbard ordered) intelligence tactic of using
"cutouts" people who can be denied to be directly under orders from
OSA.
My thoughts are there's a crew of skilled persons with conveniently
plausible "nutjob" valences who are encouraged to keep ARS all weird
and unattractive to prevent really helpful ex members like you from
discoursing here.
I come here because ARS is the freest site in my opinion with some of
the smartest minds.
Welcome Jeff!
I hope people ask you some questions here?
I challenged Tom to even talk with you.
I imagine since he is being directed by OSA that if anyone major like
you, since you just showing now for the first time, my guess he will
have to get a "C/S" on you, and get okay to use this or that approach
with you.
We'll see how free he is in interchanges with you.
I found at first, that there was a 1-2 day delay on the interchanges
between me and one of these plausibly nutty anti-critic identities
here on ARS.
My thoughts are the OSA people C/S the crew of nutjob posters to some
degree.
We need a defector like Gloria Idda or someone from OSA to detail
exactly the daily/weekly ARS battleplan.
Best, Chuck
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