Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
Followup-To: alt.clearing.technology, alt.religion.scientology
From: ho...@lightlink.com
Date: 31 May 2010 00:45:25 -0400
Local: Mon, May 31 2010 12:45 am
Subject: Re: NOTS 5 & 7

[I asked Homer Smith some questions, below, and his answers I find fascinating. His answers to me give some legitimacy to Hubbard's/Scientology's spiritual religious goals and claims. To me it's all fantasy imagination, but his answer is the type of answer I think the public would LIKE to be given when they ask these types of questions of official Scientology. I think Homer is further out there compared to even Scientologists, in Homer's ideas of souls, angels,etc. But this is the type of staying on subject answer that I would hope someday Scientologists who've completed OT 7 and OT 8 could answer.]

05/31/10 Monday 12:44am EST

NOTS 5 & 7

chuckbeatty77 @aol.com wrote:
>1) Please explain NOTs, OT 5, in simple layman terminology

>2) Have you ever advanced to official Church of Scientology NOTs OT 5?

>3) Have you advanced to official Church of Scientology SOLO NOTs OT 7?

>Can you explain them in neutral layman's terms?

>Like explain "body thetans" and clusters, and the ill effects of "body
>thetans" and what makes the difference in why SOLO NOTs is a really
>"long haul" (per the LRH ED Legacy of the Tech briefing of 1982ish).

[Homer speaking now:]

I am personally a bit lost on what level is what level these days, being an Old Time Scn who did NOT make it up their bridge in the normal standard way.

There are a number of issues in the above that need to be kept separated.

First the world is a virtual machine amongst dreaming god units, beings.

That means there is no objective universe except its projection in each of our minds. Anyone who has played a multi player arcade game or on the internet will understand the concept.

Every object in the virtual external universe is a being mocking itself up as that object. Since objects have objects within them, those inner objects also have beings being that object, down to the last quark.

Or whatever the final fundamental level of 'particle' is, each particle is a being incarnation, and each functional layer of complexity made out of those inner parts has a being controlling it.

We call these beings elementals, their primary name to fame is they can mockup physical universe things and be them, so the virtual physical universe can continue.

But there are also beings in the sense we usually understand them, souls, angels, demons, Gods, all of which are identities that a being takes on in its role in the existing game stream, independent of beings who are solely supporting the existence of the phyiscal universe.

We generally differentiate between thetans, GE's, and entities, most of which are huge conglomerations of elementals who are being very complex and able identities.

The GE is mostly involved in games of evolving life on the planets, but there are also GE's that are stars, suns, moons and the planets themselves.

Every organizational complexity in the phyiscal universe has a being at the helm of that level.

There is a small subclass of conglomerates called BT's or Body Thetans, which suffered a very specific incident called OT III, or Incident 2 purportedly 76 million years ago. The indident itself many be an implant much older. The incident may never have really happened, and if it did, it probably did not happen to me and thee.

BT's however are beings much like you and me, thetans, we call them 9 to 5ers, they had lives, bodies, jobs, families, children, etc, but who were captured, killed, brought to Earth and canned. Many are in a state of clustering with other BT's, and super clustering, clusters of clusters.

Thus the focus on BT's is the result of a specific incident in this sector of the galaxy and is not common across the universe, as the other being types are.

The thetan that controls the body has its own track but has become involved in human bodies, GE's, demons, deities, angels and gods of various sorts and of course BT's.

The body plus thetan is a huge bristling conglomerate of beings of different types. It is practically a bustling megapolis of different kinds of beings from different places.

Elementals, by request and design, form the time track of the thetan and are responsible for mocking up things during times of 'restimulation' including drug experiences.

The thetan has to USE what the elemental gives him in order to get stuck with it, usually by dramatizing the various persona in the mockup to his benefit (going out of valence.)

The thetan generally is no longer able to make the mockup directly himself, but he can still act out what the mockup says to do once the elemental mocks it up for him.

The thetan doesn't HAVE to dramatize the mockup, he can tell the elemental, thanks but no thanks and put the elemental back into a no mockup state.

Thetans also get stuck permanently in such out of valence conditions (service facsimile computations) and thus remain in chronic restimulation.

A computation is a postulate concering the advantage of being disadvantaged.

Existence in a human body is probably a service fac computation, and any chronic somatic in the body are further such computations.

The social tone of a being may be in the 0 to 4.0 range, but the real tone of the thetan once he wakes up that he isn't a body is usually down below hiding at -8.0, being nothing at -20.0, or can't hide at - -30.0.

http://www.clearing.org/cgi/archive.cgi?/electra/tone.memo

There are also beings who are in very bad shape buried deep in the preclear's time track in areas of the past that are in permanent restumulation, these are the NOTS beings.

The purpose of clearing is first to remove the permanent restim of the service fac.

This produces a Grade IV Homo Novis.

There need to make people wrong has vanished :)

Then to erase much of the content in the entity supported time track so that there is nothing to restiumulate any more. Those entities then go free again to do their own thing.

This produces a clear, no longer has his own time track. It isn't fully true, but it is hard to restimulate a clear, as he has very little to restimulate, except GPM masses mentioned below.

After clear, one needs to run out his immediate involvement in the surrounding OT III BT/Cluster cases that pack the body in from the outside and inside it too.

After OT III, one needs to run out the remaining 'dead' NOTS beings from the remaining parts of the whole track time track that the being still walks around with including his GPMS masses.

GPMS masses are a kind of grave yard for NOTS beings.

Once they all go free, the being is free to erase his time track fully, releasing the rest of the supporting elementals keeping it around for him.

After that, the being is faced with a sea of all of the above in all the other beings that he is surrounded by in real life, both carnate and disincarnate.

At some point the main thetan in the body, also needs to separate from any joiners, melders, or clusters that he himself is part of, or at least renegotiate them to better fit his needs.

A being alone by himself can't do much of anything, thus joining with 'partners' was a way to build up abilities through cooperation.

A system of parts operating via cause and effect across a space time distance can do more than one part alone.

This joining however is in spiritual space not phyiscal space.

Joiners are different than clustering, in that joining is fair chosen for a purpose. Clustering results from common engrams such as during times of war or mass death, or from direct collisions with other beings and 'sticking' due to confusion about who is who.

One thing about clusters, is each being in the cluster thinks he is ALL the beings in the incident. Thus when running a cluster you may find for example endless scenes of soliders marching during war, bodies laying everywhere. The cluster thinks it is all of them, the whole thing. Clusters also tend to think they are swarms of beings, like bees, birds, fishes, snakes, and huge crowds of humans.

When highly packed clusters start to show up in session, they can appear as huge groups, bunches, and cornecopias of grapes or other fruit. It's just an apparency.

But if you poke open one of the grapes there will be more cornecopias of grapes pouring out. Thus 10,000 grapes each having 10,000 grapes for 3 levels, produces upwards of a trillion beings all wanting to go free. As they break open their packingness, they start to show up as huge crowds of people, with clothes, hats male and female, everything, standing waiting to be handled. This can be overoverwhelming to be in the middle of a few thousand or million beings packing you in tighter and tighter as they fill up the room or space you are all in.

This can give you extreme claustrophobia, but they respond to simple thoughts of 'make some room dudes' so I can move about. And they respond en masse to

What are you?
Who are you?
How many are you?
You are real people!
In the name of the High US, be free now.

You don't need answers, they just need to receive and consider the thoughts, and soon they all start vanishing by the thousands, and your space is free to fill up with grapes again :)

Homer

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From alt.religion.scientology

On Jun 9, 2:18 pm, "xenufrance" wrote:

> Hubbard says:
> "THE SUPREME TEST of a thetan is his ability
> TO MAKE THINGS GO RIGHT."

> so, seeing what scientology is... the only "pass" we can give to LRH and
> his successor miscavige regarding that "drill" of getting things go right,
> is their ability to make money go right (for the moment).

> That's not what I could dream of as a way to make things go right, moreover so when getting money means to steal or defraud..

> r

One thing Hubbard did was write and lecture sufficiently, and record
and publish his lectures and writings and then on top of it, he wrote
in detail HOW to inculcate new people with his ideas, in a focused and
intense enough environment, so that enough people stuck with his
version of reality.

Hubbard is a spiritualist mixed with science fiction. Or science
fiction turned into spiritualism reality, in my opinion.

From the one on one borrowed Freudian therapy of Dianetics, to
spiritualism of today's exorcism of souls that infest our bodies, and
to the gnosticism of returning each of us, supposedly, to God like
"source" powers of universes we wish to create.

I'm an atheist, it is all advanced science fiction mind crap in my
opinion.

But in our still spiritual world, where so many human beings on earth
believe in souls, believe in God, believe in ghosts, believe in
UFOs, believe in life on other planets, Hubbard's Scientology ideas
still are believable to a large number of people.

I've held jobs my last 6 years straight, where I talk daily, newly, to
fresh new people, at their houses.

People just simply are so much into religion, that when I explain
Scientology, even in terms of "body thetans" and soul exorcism, they
understand.

Since atheist physicists/cosmologists can always be backed into a
corner and they admit they don't have the answers, this leaves the
religion people their openings, and always have allowed religion
people their cosmologies.

Scientology I think plays on the undereducated, obviously.

But almost all religions play on the undereducated, in my opinion.

I just barely missed getting into Scientology, sadly, got hooked,
spent my almost 30 years in it, funny how so many people were in it
for 27 years, me too, technically (1975-2003).

Well Hubbard's outpouring of material is sufficient to persuade a fair
number of people.

And all the negative press, is unfortunately causing people to still
delve into what Scientologists beileve themselves.

I myself got into Scientology after being told to stay away from it,
and I was even told the Xenu stuff, but the way Xenu/body thetans was
told to me, wasn't sufficiently simple enough, so it confused me, and
I joined and did almost 30 years on staff, and finally realized it was
NOT delivering what it promised. And instead the abuse and
expectancies were so irreligious, it contradicts itself when you find
yourself in the top staff ranks.

My favorite anonymous video of all time, currently at least, is this
one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyigdRxPOR4

(THANKYOU whoever made this video, it IS my all time favorite, I play
it over and over, to unbrainwash myself, I admit)

thanks Roger for your YEARS of steadfast work on the internet and on
TV and radio, and being such a damn good French person!

Chuck
ex Scientology staffer (1975-2003)
412-260-1170 Pittsburgh, USA (anyone call me after 9pm east coast time)
http://tinyurl.com/49g722
http://tinyurl.com/295khy
http://tinyurl.com/cgrg7
http://tinyurl.com/38ptz8
http://tinyurl.com/ywhgaf
http://tinyurl.com/5xkdl5

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 08:26:41 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Jun 12 2010 11:26 am
Subject: Xenu and "body thetans" talk might work, when pestered by Scientology phone calls

Here's my advice to someone recently quit, who asked for how to get around STILL being called by Scientologists who call this person trying to "handle" them:

The thing about just using "Deadfile" as an excuse, the person (Scientology staffer calling you) on the other end of the phone line MIGHT be under such pressure, that he knows you are Deadfiled, and his/ her superiors at the church ALSO know that you are deadfiled, and they DON'T care, they STILL think they have a legitimate reason to pester you and "handle" you.

So "Deadfile" should work, but it sometimes does NOT work when the staff incompetently do NOT follow that Hubbard rule/policy.

So, as you discovered already, they are incompetent, and my guess is that they are under such intense pressure, they at least DO have your current address and phone number, and THAT to them is a positive.

Were you somehow to change addresses, and change phone numbers, that will cause them to stop trying for sure.

That they still know how to get a hold of you, and when they do "contact" you, they get a "point" in their statistics at least for contacting you, which is also one of the reasons they will violate the Hubbard rules.

They operate on statistics, they live and die by their statistics, and unfortunately, they get a "statistic" when they successfully contact someone, EVEN if they don't convince you.

So the "plus" side of things regarding you, from their viewpoint, is that they can even contact you, and they get minor credit for that, and THAT, in my opinion, is why they violate the "Deadfile" rule. They KNOW you don't want them to contact them. But them getting to count contacting you as a minor success on their statistics, gives them slight protection in defending themselves from their superiors who push staff to make contacts and try to sell their products.

So to be "obnoxious" to them, just use "Xenu" and "body thetans" in any conversation they have with you. They will then label your Central Files folder as DO NOT CALL.

When they ask you a question, don't answer them. Ask them a question back, and say:

"Hey! Can I give you some OT 3 data I just read on the internet? Did you know that Xenu is the bad guy who blew up the hydrogen bombs here on earth 75 million years ago, and Xenu is the guy who caused the "Wall of Fire" incident where the tremendous fire storm winds from all those hydrogen bombs swept all around earth and killed EVERYONE, 75 million years ago, and THAT is what is also known as the 4th Dynamic Engram?"

"And did you know that all the dead people, their souls, or thetans, were then implanted with false information by Xenu for 36 and 1/2 days straight, after this horrendous murder engram?"

"And did you know that there were SO MANY dead thetans who were falsely implanted, that there have NOT been enough bodies for all those thetans, so what happened is the extra thetans have been hitchhiking on all of our bodies here on earth ever since. We all have extra thetans attached and infesting us and those thetans leak the content of that 36 and 1/2 day long implant into our minds. THAT is what is handled today on levels OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7!! The "upper levels" of Scientology deal with removing these extra souls, confidentially called "body thetans", from our bodies, so that all the mental baggage that these "body thetans" have in their minds ALSO is set free and doesn't leak into our minds. The "upper OT levels" is basically high volume exorcism, getting these souls to go away from us and take their mental baggage with them, so it doesn't affect us! Did you know that this is what the OT upper levels is all about? I bet you didn't?!!"

That's a recap and summary of what you can print off, and have near your phone, and start reading to whichever Scientologist calls you next.

They will likely hang up pretty quickly on you, and NOT let you say the whole answer I wrote out above. And some newer staff, who DON'T know to hang up on you, well YOU will be doing a good thing of telling those newer staff the truth and planting some seeds in their heads about the truth about what Scientology is all about at the "upper levels."

Best, Chuck

Newsgroups: alt.clearing.technology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:31:38 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sun, Jun 13 2010 6:31 pm
Subject: Greg Wilhere! Damn you! Handle David Miscavige! Remember the "Special Executive Briefing Course's" focus?????

Greg [Greg Wilhere is a Class 12, he's been the Commanding Officer of DC Org, Commanding Officer of the International Training Org, he was the Inspector General in the late 1980s when his subordinates were the IG Ethics, IG Tech and IG Admin triad top roles in RTC, with Miscavige still being top asshole boss Chairman of the Board], Gregs been a trusted Miscavige top lieutenant, the OTHER right hand man to Miscavige with Marty Rathbun being the other "right hand" man to Miscavige for a shitload of years, and to me, most importantly, GREG WILHERE in the late 1970s got in trouble for compiling a "shortened" executive checksheet (course), which put emphasis on LRH's earlier than 1965, more "compassionate" executive leadership duties. When someone in the movement puts out a course, they do the combing through the Hubbard materials, they decide what the course is all to accomplish, and Greg was absolutely correct, in my opinion, he really solved multiple problems that Hubbard had himself laid an egg, and Greg at least with the "shortened" executive training course he made, he cherry picked correctly,in my now over 30 years obsession with Scientology management matters, Greg picked a far BETTER mixture of Hubbard executive leadership policies and focused the trainees heads onto a far better mix of Hubbard's executive ideas, compared to how today, the movement has played out under the gradually more and more insane leadership focus of current Scientology boss leader David Miscavige.

Admittedly Hubbard, like every far greater person/world leader in human history, Hubbard fell short of even his own science fiction grand goals inspirational executive policies behavior. Admittedly, today, most of the people I most respect in the ex Sea Org leadership community, Carl Carlson being probably the one I most respect for his intelligent views in hindsight about Hubbard's management and leadership policies; Carl's views I believe are the most sane views, and Hubbard overall fails in any case, but at least Hubbard's prior to 1965 executive policies were MORE like normal business policies.

One was NOT supposed to berate or "call on the carpet" one's subordinates in public, per the prior to 1965 Hubbard executive management policies.

Greg himself WROTE the drills and essays, and Greg Wilhere knows DAMN well, because it is GREG WILHERE who focused the "Special Executive Briefing Course" into what Greg Wilhere LATER got blasted for making this course a "quickie" OEC/FEBC.

Yet Greg is the one who understands or rather understood, that at the time of his compiling this checksheet for this "Special Executive Briefing Course", it is GREG WILHERE (Class 12, OEC/FEBC himself, in otherwords ALL of the training that David Miscavige is NOT!!!), it is Grey Wilhere, who STILL now, today, is at the Int Base, and who SHOULD be remembering this SAME more compassionate, and NON "banana republic" Hubbard operating executive policy, which is so VERY MUCH violated by David Miscavige, and GREG goddamn WILHERE should be standing up to and OUSTING David Miscavige, by a brute to brute confrontation.

I'm sad to have already been told that Greg Wilhere has become a mini David Miscavige, and an equally brutal "unreasonable" asshole like Miscavige.

Greg Wilhere! Stand the fuck up Greg, and do that pre 1965 LRH management executive policy that you were blasted for "quickieing" into the "Special Executive Briefing Course".

Damn you Greg Wilhere! Handle Miscavige!

Minimally, I hope this gets you in trouble, and you get up the courage to handle Miscavige.

Remember your "Special Executive Briefing Course's" focus! You wrote those damn drills Greg!!!!!!

The students RAVED about that course and those drills!

Chuck Beatty
your former subordinate, when you were Commanding Officer International Training Org and I was the implementator of your "Special Executive Briefing Course" which cherry picked and focused on LRH's more benign executive basics. Miscavige is so off those Hubbard management basics. Greg wake the f up man!!! Handle Miscavige!!!!

Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
From: "chuckbeatty77 @aol.com"
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 10:51:17 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, Jun 19 2010 1:51 pm
Subject: Re: Marty's account of Hubbard's daughter as cult laundress

On Jun 16, 10:01 am, Hartley Patterson wrote:

> > Fact is, the family wasn't real crazy about hanging out with the real
> > crazy lunatic. And he'd thrown Mary Sue under the bus when she went to
> > prison for him.

> Hubbard had no idea what to do with the wealth his designer religion had
> brought him, and the kick he got from controlling people and watching them
> grovel had perhaps worn off.

> So he went off into retirement and started writing Science Fiction again.
> His final evil deed, I suspect, was to leave no will so he could laugh from
beyond the grave at the idiots squabbling ever the money.

> --
> FREEDOM is a trademark owned by
> Religious Technology Centerhttp://www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm

Hubbard died before non profit tax exempt status was gained for the Scientology "religious" corporations.

I read Hubbard's final years private traffic to Author Services.

He ordered HIS personal wealth ALL go to CST (the making of his writings on metal plates to be buried in the ground project that is still ongoing, see Pope's and Orange's recent protest videos at "Twin Peaks"). And THAT is what was done. His several hundred million dollar assets were then put into accounts which need to be explained, possibly Russ Bellin or Nigel Oaks or some others can detail.

But Hubbard was MORE open about what he wished and again, I've only said this a thousand times, the proof is in HIS writings, the ASI orders/traffic, of the 1980s.

LRH's final years private despatch traffic to the Int Base and ASI and also regarding what CST was to do (bury his writings on metal plates, namely imperishable form) IS what Hubbard was about.

I cannot stress this enough. This is NOT other than Hubbard's fantasy, which he wrote his science fiction mind into the reality of Scientology, into his CST project, and into the church bureaucracies today.

He spoke of retiring, but behind the scenes, his TRAFFIC to the Int Base, and to ASI in his final years is the TRUTH of his self created fantasy of his Scientology movement.

The wealth of the people duped into donating for Scientology, ultimately has gone to burying Hubbard's writings on metal plates, easily over 100 million dollars worth, likely over 150 million dollars worth all total, to doing the Hubbard version of the movie "2001 A Space Odyssey" where a space culture leaves it's "calling card" on remote planets to be discovered far LATER in the future.

LRH's calling card to the universe is multi pronged.

I cannot state this enough.

a) His metal plates in the ground for digging up at some future time when people on earth are blown away by whatever means, including natural disasters, alien invasions, etc.

b) The church training film I dub the "Isaac Hayes" church training film, where Hubbard, as is repeated by Amy Scobee in her book, where Isaac speaking for Hubbard urges the Class 6 trainees to remember the contents of Hubbard's spiritual principles in their heads, because they will be operating only on their memories when these Class 6s find themselves in future lives on other planets.

THIS IS SERIOUSLY WHAT HUBBARD WAS DOING.

Hubbard's final years writings ARE the movement's marching orders, and Miscavige to some degree has done some of those marching orders, while at the same time turning into mini Stalin II.

I wish I could mind meld ALL of Hubbard's final years crap into anyone's head who really wants to think like Hubbard, if only for a half hour, and hopefully NOT be permanently damaged by it.

But THAT is what I will someday write about, if someone else doesn't get this point, which I sound like a broken record repeating/pleading to be duplicated.

Chuck