This article and interview appeared in the Ekaterinburg, Russia,
newspaper after the discoveries were made. It explains a lot about the
find and how it was done, and what was unearthed. The article is
courtesy of Stuart C. and was translated by his Russian friend, евгений
петров - Yevgene Petrov from Ekaterinburg. Thanks to both of them!
“
I am pleased we did it!”
“Yakov Mikhailovich Yurovsky died in the Kremlin’s hospital exactly 20 years after the tsar’s family had been assassinated.
Every Ural official, who had signed the execution order, was shot in Stalin’s camps.
Everyone
involved in the execution itself died in their beds, which was what the
last tsar had pleaded God for. When the grave of the tsar family was
opened, they did find Anastasia’s body. However, the remains of Maria
and Alexei were missing. And no traces of anything which would point to
the fact that the bodies had been burnt, despite lengthy searches,
could be found…”
Edward Radzinsky. Epilogue to the play, The Last Night of the Last Tsar.
“No
traces could be found”. This was true until only recently. A month ago
a small group of scientists and volunteers found the place where two
people, a boy and a young woman, had been burnt and hidden underneath
fifty meters away from the spot known since 1991 as the one where the
nine members of the tsar family had been buried. Less than a week ago a
sensation was publicised: the remains found on Staraya Koptyakovskaya
Road are very likely to be those of Alexei and Maria Romanovs.
The
interview published today is very much first-hand. All the items of the
recent historical dig in the infamous Porosenkov Log went through the
hands of Sergei Pogorelov, Deputy Head of Department of Archaeological
Research of the Scientific Centre for Protection of Monuments of
History and Culture in Sverdlovsk Region. Sergei Pogorelov, an
archaeologist, a frequent contributor to our newspaper, answers OG’s
questions.
‘Sergei
Nikolayevich, in those days when you and your colleagues involved in
the dig and cameral treatment of materials became the centre of extreme
attention, you must have been bombarded with questions like: who
ordered? Or even: who allowed?’
“I say to that: we live in a
free country. Our task at the Centre where I and my research colleagues
work is to identify and protect the monuments of history and culture.
We have an appropriate licence, a memorandum, a resolution to cooperate
with the Regional Ministry of Culture. All the necessary requirements
were followed when the works were carried out.
“Do you remember
the careless excavation of the main site in 1991? Liudmila Koryakova,
an archaeologist from the Institute of History and Archaeology, was
asked to help. She says she had no adequate working conditions, no
necessary tools were provided. And such work requires accurate tools,
layer-by-layer uncovering, perfect clearing, horizontal fixing.
“I
had a chance to see some footage of filming in 1991. Awful! The
officers, soldiers were standing in a pit, all damp. Someone was
digging something out right underneath their feet…”
‘But still
your predecessors, let’s call them Avdonin’s group, achieved a
substantial result. Even though not many believed them. Didn’t and
still don’t.’
“We, historians and archaeologists, had no doubts
about the authenticity of the remains found then. We were a hundred
percent sure: It’s THEM. But those who were uncovering the burial site
didn’t think of recording the results properly. And created problems.
Caused doubts. The word went round: It’s falsified, it’s the KGB who
placed the bones there.
“The work on the burial site was
continued by A. Avdonin. It was then passed on to the Institute of
History and Archaeology. Having abandoned their projects and halted
their expeditions, they worked in Porosenkov Log until 1997, covering
large areas. Then everything stopped. And not just because of
under-financing. The topic lost its appeal. And what they were looking
for was just about eight meters away.”
‘Why couldn’t they find
what you did? After your news conference the media said you had some
new sources of information. Allegedly the so called Yurovsky’s message
was deciphered. The one that wasn’t really a secret, it was published
15 years ago. Just open numerous books of those years and read it…’
“Here
it is on my desk, a copy of that archive document. Yes, everyone writes
they followed this Message… There are no leads to follow there!”
‘How about the statement that two bodies were separated from the rest?’
“Yes,
but where to look for them? There is an opinion that the Message gives
an indication. It doesn’t! Apart from the words: “started a fire there
and then”. What is meant by “there and then”? I think Avdonin and our
colleagues from the Institute of History and Archaeology interpreted
these words “there and then” as “nearby”. The famous photo of Ermakov,
the executioner, added to the confusion: He was standing on the railway
sleepers, where, as it transpired later, nine human bodies were hidden.
And just three-five meters away there was some kind of cloth or piece
of clothing like a jacket on the grass. And the searchers “made an
intelligent guess” that there was another, smaller, burial site
underneath.
‘Sergei Nikolayevich, in those days when you and your colleagues
involved in the dig and cameral treatment of materials became the
centre of extreme attention, you must have been bombarded with
questions like: who ordered? Or even: who allowed?’
“I say to
that: we live in a free country. Our task at the Centre where I and my
research colleagues work is to identify and protect the monuments of
history and culture. We have an appropriate licence, a memorandum, a
resolution to cooperate with the Regional Ministry of Culture. All the
necessary requirements were followed when the works were carried out.
“Do
you remember the careless excavation of the main site in 1991? Liudmila
Koryakova, an archaeologist from the Institute of History and
Archaeology, was asked to help. She says she had no adequate working
conditions, no necessary tools were provided. And such work requires
accurate tools, layer-by-layer uncovering, perfect clearing, horizontal
fixing.
“I had a chance to see some footage of filming in 1991.
Awful! The officers, soldiers were standing in a pit, all damp. Someone
was digging something out right underneath their feet…”
‘But
still your predecessors, let’s call them Avdonin’s group, achieved a
substantial result. Even though not many believed them. Didn’t and
still don’t.’
“We, historians and archaeologists, had no doubts
about the authenticity of the remains found then. We were a hundred
percent sure: It’s THEM. But those who were uncovering the burial site
didn’t think of recording the results properly. And created problems.
Caused doubts. The word went round: It’s falsified, it’s the KGB who
placed the bones there.
“The work on the burial site was
continued by A. Avdonin. It was then passed on to the Institute of
History and Archaeology. Having abandoned their projects and halted
their expeditions, they worked in Porosenkov Log until 1997, covering
large areas. Then everything stopped. And not just because of
under-financing. The topic lost its appeal. And what they were looking
for was just about eight meters away.”
‘Why couldn’t they find
what you did? After your news conference the media said you had some
new sources of information. Allegedly the so called Yurovsky’s message
was deciphered. The one that wasn’t really a secret, it was published
15 years ago. Just open numerous books of those years and read it…’
“Here
it is on my desk, a copy of that archive document. Yes, everyone writes
they followed this Message… There are no leads to follow there!”
‘How about the statement that two bodies were separated from the rest?’
“Yes,
but where to look for them? There is an opinion that the Message gives
an indication. It doesn’t! Apart from the words: “started a fire there
and then”. What is meant by “there and then”? I think Avdonin and our
colleagues from the Institute of History and Archaeology interpreted
these words “there and then” as “nearby”. The famous photo of Ermakov,
the executioner, added to the confusion: He was standing on the railway
sleepers, where, as it transpired later, nine human bodies were hidden.
And just three-five meters away there was some kind of cloth or piece
of clothing like a jacket on the grass. And the searchers “made an
intelligent guess” that there was another, smaller, burial site
underneath.
“So, the phrase “there and then” was understood as “nearby” and they
started uncovering the grass and looking for the place of the fire from
the central, bigger burial site. The work took several years. Huge
areas were uncovered. They found a dozen of sites of fires, even
primeval stone tools, animal bones. After 1997 there was hardly any new
excavation.”
‘How did your search go? By covering untouched areas or by identifying locations worth a closer look?’
“By
logical identification of viable locations. Vitaly Shitov, a local
historian, wrote a book about Ipatiev House, about the tragedy there.
When it was about to be published, potential sponsors expected the
author to give some finale at the end. And the issue was becoming more
and more topical: the unfound remains needed to be found! Shitov met
Andrey Grigoriev, the Deputy General Director of our Scientific Centre.
He spoke to Nikolay Neuymin, one of the founders of Mountain Shield, a
military and historical club. These are not “black archaeologists”,
these are people who are officially involved in the patriotic work to
find the remains of WWII soldiers. They are very experienced in this.
“They
were persistent in their intentions to continue their search in
Porosenkov Log, they re-read Yurovsky’s message and interpreted “there
and then” differently. “There and then” means “at once”.
“That means it would have been somewhere nearby.
“The
logic is the place in the mass grave, which is these days marked with
an orthodox cross, is still damp. To start a fire and burn bodies in
water is not an easy task. It would have made more sense to take them
further up, somewhere dry. And to start a fire there. We went and had a
look; a bit further up, to the left of the road there is a hill. The
ravine changes to a high dry spot. We decided to start our search from
there. It’s all logical.”
‘And simple.’
“Very simple. We
formed a historical and archaeological team and decided to start by
checking the site with detectors, iron bars. We assumed that whatever
is there it should be quite close to the surface. We are not talking
about the Palaeolithic age with a depth of several meters.
“If
this method wasn’t effective, we would use a pure archaeological method
– trenches every half a meter. We started working that June. Only at
weekends. It was all voluntary, with no funding. On July 29th we
stumbled over remains of a fire. We did a prospect pit and found bones.
“The
team contacted archaeologists – Yevgeny Kurlaev, me. I invited
specialists to form an expedition. We invited Dmitry Razhev from the
Institute of History and Archaeology. He is an anthropologist, a
Candidate of Sciences. He has done hundreds of research projects on
skeletons – from the Stone Age to the 20th century. He was joined by
Yevgeny Kurlaev from the same Institute. And Nikolay Yerokhin from the
Institute of Plant and Animal Ecology, an archaeologist, biologist,
local historian and geodesist. A team of searchers, colleagues from the
Scientific Centre, a few students.
“We started a 100-meter
archaeological dig, with a small centre and a large area around. We dug
a meter-deep drain ditch to divert the ground water. We uncovered 5-cm
layers one by one. Every square meter was divided by 16 further
squares. And every small square was examined, washed through a
millimetre sieve to avoid losing any tiny item. Everything was recorded
depth- and location-wise.
“Knowing the situation of 1991, we did
not report to the Ministry of Internal Affairs or Federal Security
Service so we could work in peace. But as soon as we had some real
results, we informed E. Rossel and sent a letter to Patriarch Alexius.
“Having
studied the object in the field, we wanted to prepare a standard
scientific report. I had to leave for Bashkiria for a while to take
part in an international scientific expedition. Hardly had I left, when
Solovyev arrived.
‘Solovyev following Solovyev’. That’s how the
famous essay writer, Lev Anninsky, called him in his essay. Our readers
will remember that Vladimir Nikolayevich Solovyev, a senior criminal
prosecutor of the Russian Prosecutor’s General Office, following
Kolchakov investigator N. Solovyev, investigated the circumstances
around the tragedy in Ipatiev House.’
“Muscovites feel like they own it all. Solovyev immediately demanded
access to the collected material. Between the lines we could read
suspicions towards ourselves. As if we let the evidence rot, removed or
get stolen! We brought everything to the office of our General
Director, Yu. Litvinenko, so he could pass it all on to the
representatives of the Prosecutor and forensics.
‘Five years ago
I happened to go to Verkhoturye together with Galina Pavlovna
Vishnevskaya. We talked about how she and Rostropovich flew to Japan
with a Russian expert to help him get some material for identifying the
remains found on Koptyakovskaya Road.
“Everything was very
solemn. Two men in uniforms, wearing white gloves, brought a parcel in.
We removed a piece of cloth and opened the case where they kept the
handkerchief which had been used to treat a wound suffered by Nicholas
Romanov after he had been struck with a samurai sword. I was amazed at
the respect the Japanese keep this relic with”. That was Galina
Pavlovna’s story. What about you, Sergey Nikolayevich, do you wear
white gloves?’
“We all wear white rubber disposable gloves, etc.
We pay respect to items of historical importance. When V. Solovyev and
his colleagues saw that we’d washed everything, packed it all into
separate packets and then labelled boxes, they smiled and apologised to
us. And we started a normal process of cooperation – described and
transferred the items. By the way, Boris Semavin, OG’s photographer,
was a witness. He signed the minutes and filmed the process.”
‘The
research process, as was mentioned many times, is only just beginning.
But some of your opponents are already attacking you, foaming at the
mouth. What do you say to them?’
“What can I say to people who
either don’t know the circumstances or are prejudiced from the start?
We find it more interesting to discuss this with serious, knowledgeable
people. V. Solovyev, a criminal law expert, N. Nevolin and V. Gromov,
forensic specialists, are not our opponents, they are with us in it. We
do disagree though on some issues. They think that a genetic analysis
is predominant. What if it doesn’t work out because there is very
little bone material? What happens then – no result?
“Dmitry
Ivanovich Razhev, an anthropologist, who researched numerous human
skeletons, including those of canonised saints, gave an anthropological
analysis of the skeletons found. Let’s call it preliminary. But we have
two occipital bones, of a young person and an older one. Two
different-sized blade bones. Two fragments of hip bones. One – of a
teenager, the other – of a young woman. The bones which were underneath
survived. The ones on top of the pile were crushed or burnt. However,
using tiny details the experienced scientist has worked out: there were
two of them, aged 10-12 and 18-23.
“Ceramic items are identical
to the ones in the first grave: parts of large jugs with sulphuric
acid. Iron items are fastenings of boxes those jugs were moved in. I
guess, the bullets found will also be identical.”
‘Would you call your first steps in the Romanov research a success?’
“They
are not my first steps. In 2000 I uncovered almost 500 sq meters of
Ipatiev estate and studied its vegetable soil. And in 2001 we opened a
well which is still intact in the basement of the Church on Blood in
Honour of All Saints.
“It was very difficult. Everyone was in a
rush to build it, to dig a foundation pit. We were accused of
interfering with the construction of an important site and revival of
Christian faith! Sometimes construction equipment was hammering away
nearby. The builders were shouting: We’ll throw you out of here! We
retorted: we will throw you out. Three months on tenterhooks! But the
chief of the contracting company was on our side.
“We managed to
do a lot. Unfortunately, that collection from Ipatiev estate is left
without action. There is no time or funds for its research, while it
may well include some of Romanov’s personal belongings.
“On the
third day of work right in the first ditch I found a saucer with a blue
edge: a plate with a Russian coat of arms on the front part and the
crown and a message on the bottom: Nicholas II. Such crockery was
described by N. Sokolov. Part of the imperial service was described by
him. We gathered the rest…
“The research, interpretation and
placing the items found in Ipatiev estate into museums are still to
come. I think we did a good job on Koptyakovskaya Road. If it’s all
confirmed genetically, we deserve an A+.”
Recorded by Rimma PECHURKINA.
